Quarterly update: narcissist miserable anxious mother with no permanent home by choice continues insanity.
sum: seen her 10x in 20 years. She left my father. She traveled world for 15 years in fancy places but on budget through demands. She is now 77. 100k in bank. We fund 35k. Social security 10k. 2-5 emails a day for this year with:
”are you going to let me die”
“if you think I am going to get on with my life you are in a fantasyland.”
”I’m not going to make it.”
”You want to buy me a house and you expect me to live alone?”
”the prices of houses have doubled - even if you are paying for it; now I have less money from you.”
”I don’t want you to buy me a house.”
”nobody does this alone.”
now, for the past year, rabbis, psychiatrists, my stepmother of all people and us have tried to come up
with solutions.
now she is begging us to “make a deal” that she can come to see us for 2 weeks and just get some love. We held our ground and said no. She said, let me come and then you can decide whether to buy me a house in California or put me in a home.
for background, she did not sacrifice for me. She divorced my father when I was 13, he raised me. She never paid a nickel for college or bought me anything. She was never there emotionally. Ever. She sent one email from 2014 where she showed that I thanked her for her ideas about a mosquito
problem. Her problems are worse, but she ignores my ocd saying it isn’t her fault. I recently had an incident where I lost feeling in my leg and my husband told her and she can’t see it. Even people with cancer have it better than her because they have family. My mil can’t walk, but she has a house. When we offer her a house, she says it’s different because my mil has been in her house. I know it is insane and I should just stop reading the emails. My husband has taken over and she bombards him. He’s ready to cut ties completely but we still want to monitor where she is and need to send her funds. There is still a nagging sadness that she isn’t welcomed by any family - but she was - she just abused everyone to a point of no contact by everyone. I’m not supposed to judge as I’m not g-d but it has deeply affected my family and it’s not ending.
I would encourage you to sign up at www.Bogleheads.org (a really good financial advisement website) and ask if this level of "contribution" to a family member is sustainable, purely from a financial viewpont.
As you point out, we are not made to judge others--only G-d does that--but nothing in the Torah says that we must allow ourselves to be used by others.
You remember Hillel? "If I am not for myself, then who will be?" Surely, your mother doesn't have your interests in mind.
Now it’s time that Ocdtrauma says, ‘No, No, Absolutely, No more, Never again!’ Actually, it’s way past time for her to do this.
Ocd admits that this situation has gone way beyond money, they have no peace of mind. It effects the entire family too, Ocd, her husband and son.
So, it’s emotional and financial abuse. Very sad.
He ended up in the hospital 4 days after arriving at our home. That was when I found out he lied to get into our home. He had auto-pay set up to continue supporting his whore exwife. Not leaving himself enough money monthly to support himself. He fully expected to live with and off us while he continued to make chitshow choices.
I was blessed, I found out right away. Because I had forgiven him for the past I was gutted that he would lie to our faces and plan on using us so shamelessly.
I do understand letting go, forgiving the past but, not being able to continue with the present transgressions. Been there, done that, have the T-shirt.
I would encourage you to stop asking your husband what her latest drama-rama is for the day. Quite frankly, you shouldn't involve him if you are going to ask for details vs reading it yourself. He shouldn't have to wade in her toxic waste daily and have to regurgitate it to you on top of that.
You have no idea if she is headed your way by what she sends, she has proven she will lie for no purpose. So what makes you think she would be honest about anything?
I'm sorry but, paying for her choices and putting up with her BS isn't gonna save your souls. Please stop justifying her behavior and your behavior. NOTHING is going to change until you guys stop participating in her insanity.
She is a manipulative, self centered POS. She has shown you who she is and what you mean to her, money, believe her already.
So what? You don't let her in. If she makes a scene you call the cops and have her taken to the ER for evaluation of her mental issues.
Stop being afraid of your mother.
I can't even call what the OP's mother is doing abuse. It's more attempted abuse.
Ocdtrauma70 is not dependent on her mother for anything. In fact, she gives this woman money.
Really, it certainly seems like Ocdtrauma70 actually enjoys being part of her mother's games and is a willing player.
She's gotten enough attention, advice, and pity from the people here. The OP will not do anything or make any changes because she still wants to play.
It's like a gambler who starts playing with the grocery and rent money.
Don't complain when you're hungry and homeless.
The OP is a victim of something like a hostage situation in which she is threatened with some sort of torture unless she pays.
She hasn't learned that her mom "showing up" does not mean that mom moves in with her. It means she gets sorted to the psych ward.
Of course, since the mom is likely charming, can play "sane" and is known to lie, it's likely she'll tell authorities she owns OP's house, lives there, etc.
OP is desperately in need of a skilled therapist who can unenmesh her. Also a lawyer.
cares if you are dead or not. Maybe I’m drinking the kool-aid, but I do have a doting husband, loving son, enough financial resources to be secure, and lots of friends. Maybe I shouldn’t feel guilty about this, but this is what she points out. Thank you for your kindness. Yes willing to give her the 35k - that is not the problem. That is the amount we don’t need (yes, I’m sure - both have cfa degrees), but I don’t like to give to
someone who is terrible to me.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-human-equation/201307/the-psychopathic-mother
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/surviving-the-female-psychopath/202110/the-emotional-torment-caused-psychopathic-mother
Google "Psychopathic mothers" and you'll get some good, easy to read articles from Psychology Today.
I think you need to re-frame your thinking about your mother.
There is always an excuse why this mental defective cannot get her life together or be happy. The reality is she will never be happy. Ever.
She is an energy vampire and is sucking the life out of you because you are so afraid of her showing up at your home. Never once has she shown you gratitude for your financial support there has always a reason for her to not be satisfied. Always an excuse. Nothing you do even sacrificing yourself and your family into a volcano would make her happy. She could have a huge family to spend time with and still be miserable. Thats just the facts.
You won't cut her off or stop communicating with her so your only hope for peace will be that she dies. But people like this tend to live a long time so you may have 20 or more years of this drama. Is that what you want for your life.
Time to grow a pair and tell mom straight up everything. Number one you are not living near me and whatever else you need to tell her. Let her know this is her final warning to stop asking and badgering you and if she continues to do so you will cut off all communication with her. And actually stop communication.
It should be financial too but you're rich so pissing money away on a hopeless and selfish person is your perogative. Not that's it's helping you feel less guilty so whats the point in paying her?
So, you see a lawyer, set up a trust/annuity that sends Mom 3k a month for her care. This should pay for a nice apt (she does not need a house) in a nice area, food and utilities. Her SS is her spending money. If the 100k in the bank is hers, then she has a cushion. To send her the money, the trust is going to need to know where she is and you will too.
What your Mom does with that 3k is on her. If she uses it to travel, live in a hotel ect, thats on her. You have given her enough to live on comfortably. And I do think there is a mental problem here when a person refuses to see that they are no longer able to get what they want with their looks and youth. That the money is no longer there to travel and stay at 5 star motels.
I understand the guilt thing but you need to realize that this woman has done it her way all her life, she is not going to change now. Since you seem to be able to afford it, give Mom the money with the stipulation that your giving her enough to comfortably live on. That is it. You are not giving her money for a plane trip to Europe or the money to set her up in a 5 star hotel. You are giving her enough that with her SS she can have a nice place to live, comforts and food. What more can you do for a person who is a stranger in so many ways. Your Mom needs to be told she is lucky that you are in the financial position to help her.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/surviving-the-female-psychopath/202110/the-emotional-torment-caused-psychopathic-mother%3famp
I understand why you feel as you do but the situation at hand is not as simple as it appears to be. I don’t believe life is completely black and white. There are many gray areas that get overlooked.
This woman has been programmed since early childhood. On top of that her mother left when she was only 13. Her screen name is appropriate because she has been through trauma.
This is a prime example of emotional abuse which accelerated into financial abuse.
There are so many unresolved issues and confusion in this woman’s head. She is struggling to sort it out. I don’t believe that she is enjoying the process.
She needs help from a licensed professional therapist that has experience in this area. I hope that she will go and express her thoughts and then listen.
It takes time to heal from deep wounds. She won’t have a revelation on her first visit with a therapist. No one does.
Yes, we all wish her well and would like to speed up the process for her but it isn’t always that easy for some people to do.
People will fail as they attempt to reach their goals. She is failing at this point. The problem is that she is having a hard time seeing where she is failing.
Whether something clicks from this forum or she receives it from therapy doesn’t matter. What matters most is that she chooses to make the necessary changes that will impact her life and she finds peace. She deserves to live her own life with her husband and son.
I’ll read this over and over again.
Am I really not getting something?
yes, programmed to her warped thinking for 40 years.
As NHWM points out, this kind of destructive programming often goes on for years and can appear to the victim to be "perfectly normal".
Trauma doesn’t end overnight!
Thank you, Barb for pointing this out.
I find it interesting that people continually make remarks about posters making more than one post about the same topic too.
Of course, they post numerous times. They are still trying to sort through things! As my therapist once told me, “We don’t ‘get over’ things. We work through them.
Everyone has their own circumstances and moves at their own pace.
I cringe when I see this happening over and over. It can make a poster feel awkward for being stuck in a rut.
My gosh, these people have been groomed since childhood!
Anyway, the OP has stated that the issue isn’t all about money for her.
I realize that the daughter simply wishes to live her life in peace and she certainly deserves to do just that.
The OP doesn’t fully grasp that her mother is using ‘money’ as a weapon. This woman isn’t rational. She will take as much as she can get.
It’s the OP’s prerogative if she wants to set up a trust but I highly doubt that she will be satisfied with the financial limits pertaining to a trust.
A trust may not even stop her mom from hounding them or threatening suicide. A trust may not stop the daughter from giving her mom extra money when she demands it.
The daughter is a giver and the mother is a taker. It doesn’t matter how much money a person has if they are irresponsible with it. Rich people go broke all the time when they keep giving money away.
The daughter is going to have to figure out how to stop giving into her mother’s begging for more, more, more and more!
I truly hope that she will seek professional help so she can begin to see the entire picture and start to heal. She has to stop stressing about what she can’t control. She cannot control what happens to her mom if she cuts her off financially and emotionally.
What will stop her mother's hounding and suicide threats is if the OP gets serious about not playing her games anymore.
Don't give her any attention whatsoever.
You say, 'She can't control what happens to her mom if she cuts her off financially and emotionally.'
Supporting her mother financially and continuing to be a willing player in her games will not give her any control over what happens to her mother either.
Not being he enabler of her bad behavior anymore will though. Defining with boundaries what their relationship will look like in the future (granted she even wants one) and controlling the narative on it certainly will too.
This is how you take and keep control of a relationship on your terms.
If the mother doesn't want t respect her daughter's terms and boundaries they should not have a relationship at all.
My Mom just phoned me & I let it go to voice mail. Doesn't matter that I have told her mult times I am working & that we talk in the evening when I phone her. She is effing bored. NOT my fault or responsibility. No friends. No neighbor friends. No hobbies. We must take responsibility for ourselves. Learn to self soothe. I am effing tired of my Mom as well. Each day I remind myself continuously to tune her out & carry on.
Figure out with you Hubs how & what you will offer up to her in the way of physical & emotional help. Stick to the plan. Protect your lives.
You have stated in a response that you are fearful of your mother. I understand that she has made some outrageous claims and it frightens you terribly.
I am glad that you have informed your child that he isn’t to go off with her, not to accept rides to or from school and so on.
Have you contacted your son’s school and asked them to call the police if she would show up? Be proactive instead of allowing fear to consume you.
I have a friend that has a horrible situation with her mom. Her mom is extremely unstable.
My friend has notified her children’s school and if her mother takes one step on the school’s property she will be arrested.
My friend has cut off all contact with her mother. She hasn’t seen her mother in years. She is much happier not having her mother in her life.
She has placed everything in the hands of law enforcement. It’s sad that people have to go to these extremes in order to protect themselves and their children.
Do whatever you have to do to bring forth normalcy in your lives.
OCD, if you want to pay your Moms way until she dies, thats between u and your husband. But you need to have boundries and stick to them. Mom needs to realize that she cannot travel the globe and men will be falling at her feet. That she is lucky that she gets money from you that will keep her comfortably. But that is all she should expect. She was very lucky she was able to live the life she did but its over because SHE cannot sustain it anymore. You need to be firm and say, this is it. If she threatens suicide, she threatens suicide. Its manipulation on her side. SHE not you put her where she is today. You can only help these types of people for so long. You may want to tell Mom its time to grow up, put her big panties on because...this is her life and this is the consequence that comes from the lifestyle she lived.
Many of us on this forum have dealt with manipulation tactics from our loved ones.
I strongly suggest that you find a therapist to help you learn to stop ruminating about your mom’s reactions and focus on reality.
The reality is that everything you have tried thus far has failed and you need to move forward in another direction.
You are allowing your emotions to get the better of you.
Start by looking at all of the facts. You have heard your mom make threats. What threats has she actually carried out? Are your concerns valid?
If you feel that her threats are valid, then be proactive by contacting your son’s school and authorities to protect yourselves and your son.
If your mom hasn’t carried out any of her threats, why are you so intimidated by her?
You are in control of this situation. Stop allowing your mother to be in charge.
Don’t continue to pay your mom endless sums of money in the hopes that it will somehow satisfy her and make your problems disappear. This is delusional thinking.
She has shown you that she is never satisfied no matter how much you give to her.
Your mom will continue to push, because the tactics that she is using are successful. She is winning and you are losing. Turn this around where you are the winner and she loses.
If she suffers from you not succumbing to her desires then so be it. Haven’t you suffered long enough from this chaos in your life? Cut her loose so you can be free!
Live your life and let your mom live hers without you being in the picture. It may end up being the greatest gift that you can give to her.
You can’t fix her. But you can change your circumstances for yourself and your family.
Aren’t you and your family worth the effort of making these changes? You deserve so much better than the life that you are living now.
Instead of envisioning what your mom can do to destroy your lives, try envisioning how great your life could be without her in it. Bliss! Pure bliss.
The problem is what you are doing, not what she is doing, as she is responsible for her own life, you are not.
Start living your own life, set boundaries, if necessary, seek some therapy to help you get a grip and stop letting her manipulate you and your family.
The most crucial thing to do is to keep looking forward. You can start now by saying to yourself and your family that you’re going to start handing things differently than you have in the past.
Don’t get tripped up by the past. Don’t beat yourself for past mistakes. Instead look at what you can learn from them. Everyone makes mistakes during their lifetimes.
Ignore any negative self talk from yourself. It is natural to want to help a parent but not at our own expense.
Don’t feel as if people on this forum are being overly critical. This forum is chock full of people who have been through difficult situations.
We are sincerely interested in helping you move away from disastrous situations and help you to find ways to improve and rebuild your life.
Handling things, not handing. Sometimes I want to fire my autocorrect on my iPhone. LOL
By all means bring her to your two bedroom apartment. Don’t even clean it. She can’t expect you to pay for more than you yourself can afford.
We can afford what we pay her.
it is the emotional trauma and there is no “have her pay.” We will never let her live on the street. She budgets well for what she gets and does not spend egregiously. We don’t think spending 50k a year is egregious. The problem isn’t the money. It’s that she wont pick a place to live as she sees no good life ahead.
She wants to have a "loving family" around her, yes?
How are you doing? Stay strong. Do not feel obligated to love your mother unconditionally, just because she gave birth to you. It takes a lot more than giving birth to a child to earn the right to be considered a ‘true’ mother.
If she continues to contact you with attempts to get only what ‘she’ wants and threats of suicide, just ignore it or call the authorities to let them know that she is harassing you and ‘possibly’ in danger of killing herself.
She is manipulative and from what I have read, you have never claimed that she has ever carried out any of her threats, so I doubt that she would kill herself.
You are not obligated to respond. Responding will not help in any way. It will only prolong the agony and prevent you from disconnecting from a toxic relationship.
As for your mother, I know the type of narcissistic, entitled, manipulative person. My mother.
Except I stopped that nonsense, as I am sure I would have been mental case today if I did not stand up for myself.
Maybe that is why I am total opposite.
I have one son who became extremely wealthy in his 30s and living in best part of LA.
He offered to pay for airline tickets to visit, he took us to some swanky place in Beverly Hills for his beautiful bride birthday, or few other treats here and there, that is OK. But we pay for trips ourselves, we contribute almost equally, buy groceries when staying there or take them for meal as well, on occasion it is great to be invited to some fabulous place.
They bought huge house with guesthouse and somebody said one day I could live there. NO! Maybe because of my mother I am such fierce believer in freedom, autonomy and independence
As responsible adults we live within our means, occasional treat, meal is OK, but, he does not owe me anything.
To interfere or destroy his life with my problems would be unthinkable.
Help financially if you must, but set your conditions and boundaries, only financial support, no more of that email nonsense. I would not even respond as this is immature of your mother to revert to this kind of behaviour.
She had years of freedom and good life, if she traveled for 15 years, she must have lived good life without thinking of consequences and financial ramifications for her future.
I lived in Europe in 2 countries and visited in last 20 years many more, there is not too many places to live on budget, unless for 18-20 something hostels.