Quarterly update: narcissist miserable anxious mother with no permanent home by choice continues insanity.
sum: seen her 10x in 20 years. She left my father. She traveled world for 15 years in fancy places but on budget through demands. She is now 77. 100k in bank. We fund 35k. Social security 10k. 2-5 emails a day for this year with:
”are you going to let me die”
“if you think I am going to get on with my life you are in a fantasyland.”
”I’m not going to make it.”
”You want to buy me a house and you expect me to live alone?”
”the prices of houses have doubled - even if you are paying for it; now I have less money from you.”
”I don’t want you to buy me a house.”
”nobody does this alone.”
now, for the past year, rabbis, psychiatrists, my stepmother of all people and us have tried to come up
with solutions.
now she is begging us to “make a deal” that she can come to see us for 2 weeks and just get some love. We held our ground and said no. She said, let me come and then you can decide whether to buy me a house in California or put me in a home.
for background, she did not sacrifice for me. She divorced my father when I was 13, he raised me. She never paid a nickel for college or bought me anything. She was never there emotionally. Ever. She sent one email from 2014 where she showed that I thanked her for her ideas about a mosquito
problem. Her problems are worse, but she ignores my ocd saying it isn’t her fault. I recently had an incident where I lost feeling in my leg and my husband told her and she can’t see it. Even people with cancer have it better than her because they have family. My mil can’t walk, but she has a house. When we offer her a house, she says it’s different because my mil has been in her house. I know it is insane and I should just stop reading the emails. My husband has taken over and she bombards him. He’s ready to cut ties completely but we still want to monitor where she is and need to send her funds. There is still a nagging sadness that she isn’t welcomed by any family - but she was - she just abused everyone to a point of no contact by everyone. I’m not supposed to judge as I’m not g-d but it has deeply affected my family and it’s not ending.
Google "Psychopathic mothers" and you'll get some good, easy to read articles from Psychology Today.
I think you need to re-frame your thinking about your mother.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/surviving-the-female-psychopath/202110/the-emotional-torment-caused-psychopathic-mother
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-human-equation/201307/the-psychopathic-mother
The OP is a victim of something like a hostage situation in which she is threatened with some sort of torture unless she pays.
She hasn't learned that her mom "showing up" does not mean that mom moves in with her. It means she gets sorted to the psych ward.
Of course, since the mom is likely charming, can play "sane" and is known to lie, it's likely she'll tell authorities she owns OP's house, lives there, etc.
OP is desperately in need of a skilled therapist who can unenmesh her. Also a lawyer.
cares if you are dead or not. Maybe I’m drinking the kool-aid, but I do have a doting husband, loving son, enough financial resources to be secure, and lots of friends. Maybe I shouldn’t feel guilty about this, but this is what she points out. Thank you for your kindness. Yes willing to give her the 35k - that is not the problem. That is the amount we don’t need (yes, I’m sure - both have cfa degrees), but I don’t like to give to
someone who is terrible to me.
I can't even call what the OP's mother is doing abuse. It's more attempted abuse.
Ocdtrauma70 is not dependent on her mother for anything. In fact, she gives this woman money.
Really, it certainly seems like Ocdtrauma70 actually enjoys being part of her mother's games and is a willing player.
She's gotten enough attention, advice, and pity from the people here. The OP will not do anything or make any changes because she still wants to play.
It's like a gambler who starts playing with the grocery and rent money.
Don't complain when you're hungry and homeless.
So what? You don't let her in. If she makes a scene you call the cops and have her taken to the ER for evaluation of her mental issues.
Stop being afraid of your mother.
He ended up in the hospital 4 days after arriving at our home. That was when I found out he lied to get into our home. He had auto-pay set up to continue supporting his whore exwife. Not leaving himself enough money monthly to support himself. He fully expected to live with and off us while he continued to make chitshow choices.
I was blessed, I found out right away. Because I had forgiven him for the past I was gutted that he would lie to our faces and plan on using us so shamelessly.
I do understand letting go, forgiving the past but, not being able to continue with the present transgressions. Been there, done that, have the T-shirt.
I would encourage you to stop asking your husband what her latest drama-rama is for the day. Quite frankly, you shouldn't involve him if you are going to ask for details vs reading it yourself. He shouldn't have to wade in her toxic waste daily and have to regurgitate it to you on top of that.
You have no idea if she is headed your way by what she sends, she has proven she will lie for no purpose. So what makes you think she would be honest about anything?
I'm sorry but, paying for her choices and putting up with her BS isn't gonna save your souls. Please stop justifying her behavior and your behavior. NOTHING is going to change until you guys stop participating in her insanity.
She is a manipulative, self centered POS. She has shown you who she is and what you mean to her, money, believe her already.
I would encourage you to sign up at www.Bogleheads.org (a really good financial advisement website) and ask if this level of "contribution" to a family member is sustainable, purely from a financial viewpont.
As you point out, we are not made to judge others--only G-d does that--but nothing in the Torah says that we must allow ourselves to be used by others.
You remember Hillel? "If I am not for myself, then who will be?" Surely, your mother doesn't have your interests in mind.
Now it’s time that Ocdtrauma says, ‘No, No, Absolutely, No more, Never again!’ Actually, it’s way past time for her to do this.
Ocd admits that this situation has gone way beyond money, they have no peace of mind. It effects the entire family too, Ocd, her husband and son.
So, it’s emotional and financial abuse. Very sad.
Sometimes, we don’t know that we don’t know. Sad but true!
I am very grateful that my therapist was able to give examples of different scenarios and enlarge my views on my situation.
I was similar to you in that I was in a negative pattern for so long that it felt natural to me. We lose ourselves. This is the outcome from being programmed by our parents.
Therapy helps us find our way back to normalcy.
I am fearful for your on-going well-being. Unless you (you and not your husband) bring in something like 25x the amount of money your mother is being gifted each year, you can't afford this.
Your children and your husband will start to resent this drain on your financial resources. If your husband were to leave, die or lose his job tomorrow, would you be able to support yourself?
I think instead of saying "giving her money has worked for X years" I think you need to start realizing that this path is unsustainable.
You can only do that with the help of a therapist, perhaps one who is experienced in working with folks who have been held hostage.
Same with children. It does cause friction.
Look up the word ‘extortion’ in the dictionary. Ring any bells for you? After you read this definition hopefully you will see that she has coerced you into giving her money by emotionally abusing you.
Giving her money isn’t going to change her disposition and make her see you as the wonderful daughter that is helping her. She sees it as you ‘owe’ her and you don’t owe her a single thing.
Has giving her money ever worked for you and your family? It hasn’t, not even as a temporary solution. In fact, it magnifies the problem because she feels as if she can hit up the ATM machine again and again. This isn’t helping her at all, it’s crippling her. She needs to learn to stand on her own two feet.
ATM’s hold a lot of money but after customers withdraw money from them repeatedly the money runs out and it has to be replaced.
Look at this practically, when your money is gone from her begging for more and more, what will you replace it with?
Say to yourself that you deserve better than this.
Your mom has plenty of practice doing this. She’ll move on and survive or be forced to accept her fate like everyone else does.
It's not even extortion. At this point The OP is choosing to be a player in the mother's games. A willing participant.
"I just found out from the religious doctor that she is in St. Louis at an upscale independent living place that ranges from $4300 for a one bedroom to $11,000 for a 2 bedroom. She told me that it was hell and she didn’t even have a toilet. She told us she got a deal for 2300, which I believe and I’m glad at least she manipulates other people so that she doesn’t spend all of our money! She lied and told us she was I. New Jersey. She’s been lying to me since I was young. Grrrr. So this kind man did help her get away from Europe where she said she was going to kill herself but now she says she hates being in this prison at this luxury residence and needs to go back to Europe. Then she’ll throw in that she needs hugs and love. It’s hard to know that your mother has lied to you her whole life to get what she wants but she must be really messed up."
She lies, she manipulates. She uses people. Giving to her--money, resources, suggestions--results in more lies and manipulation, not peace or happiness for either of you.
If you go "Grey Rock" or just pretend you're in Japan, she will find someone else to use.
Let her go.
I absolutely believe in being charitable to those in need. Sometimes people need help in getting over a hump due to certain circumstances. They lost their job, they had a medical emergency and so on.
Your mom has been completely irresponsible and selfish. That’s a totally different story.
Everyone has given you the same message. She is your mother (in name only) but she is NOT your boss.
You said that you are paying her to be free of her. You don’t play games with someone who is emotionally blackmailing you. They just keep playing the same game over and over again because they are winning. You call them out any way that is possible. Then you live life on your terms.
Sorry if I sound harsh. I don’t mean to. I realize that you are stuck in this rut. It happens, but do whatever you need to to get unstuck. She has you under her thumb.
You are her daughter. Is she treating you as her daughter? Think about that for a moment.
You know the answer. Everyone else does too. She treats you like the ‘Bank of Whatever I Want Money For.’ And to top it off if she doesn’t get it, she throws in a suicide threat or two!
She has exceeded her ATM allowance for life! You are not an ATM machine that she is allowed to make continual withdrawals out of for the rest of her life. Next time she asks for money, send her an email back saying, ‘Insufficient funds.’ A person has to invest money to withdraw it. She hasn’t ever invested!
I taught my children this at a very young age. One day my daughter asked for an expensive toy because her friend had it and I told her that she could put the item on her Santa list.
Well, she piped up with, “Mommy, just go to the bank. The nice lady will give you money.” My first thought was to giggle because it was hilarious, but I contained my laughter.
I told her that mommy and daddy work and deposit money into the bank and that is why ‘the nice lady’ gives us our money when we go to the drive through at the bank. She understood then that money had to be put in first in order to get it out.
Happiness comes from inside the person whose life it is. Not from gifts given from others. You can't "fund" happiness.
Stop trying. You are feeding your mother a drug that enables her to keep demanding more.
Tell your mother that she isn't calling the shots here, you are.
Journaling helped me through tough times.
Stop spending money on your mom. If you don’t want to tell mom, ask your husband to tell her.
Spend money on finding a therapist for yourself who specializes in childhood trauma, abandonment, codependency, etc.
You deserve to heal.
It will be money well spent and worth every penny.
Either you or your husband can suggest to mom to get counseling for herself. Why can’t your mom scale back on her lifestyle? That’s what most people do when they’re running low on cash. They don’t call up their children to ask for for money to travel because they don’t want to live in Florida or Arizona.
You don’t have the power to change your mom’s attitudes but you can learn how to adjust your attitude.
You deserve to have many years of joy ahead of you. Speak to someone to help you find your way.
My therapist once said to me, “We don’t get over something. We work through it.” I believe that if you are willing to try, you can work through this and move forward to live a happy and healthy life. Haven’t you reached your threshold of pain yet? Just the stress alone isn’t good for any of you.
Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Solid true truth! Once we realize this we have greater power! And on the road to self protection. Changing ourselves is more powerful than trying to change someone else.
when hubby had stroke I kept his adult children in the loop. Bent over backwards to kept difficult relationships peaceful. Begged them to visit. It was causing stress and harm to him and me. All I ever heard from them was crying pretty tears, lots of talk of love but never any action. All faux. They were willing to help out in their spare time when it was convenient only if we moved cross country closer to them. Never offer to help us move. Finally I had enough and stop responding. One kid tracked down my mother to ask what was going on!! The same kid that called a welfare check to the police under the pretense I was abusing her dad all because I wouldn’t answer her text fast enough. My mom told her and to pass it along that neither me or hubby wants anything to do with any of them and to leave us alone. Three blissful years so far and life is so much happier.
picture yourself five years from now. Do you want to look back and see that every year was of hurt from dealing with mom. Or do you want to look back and smile cause what you see brought you peace and joy.
Do not let her in your house, even for a "short visit". Much like the common cockroach, once an elder infests a home it becomes significantly harder to remove them.
financial records. The saddest thing about bank security codes is that they always ask for the mothers maiden name!
If you have lots of money to pay out, and unending tolerance for putting your own mental health at further risk, I suppose you will go right ahead. But you can only blame yourself, not the mother you unfortunately got dealt with.
What a pity!
This is actually a wonderful idea! Ocdtrauma’s mom passed on her responsibility of being in her child’s life.
So, why shouldn’t Ocdtrauma pass on the responsibility of being the kind of daughter that her mom wants, which is only ‘Bank of Ocdtrauma’ to fund her living and traveling expenses.
You are correct, her husband can take over, freeing up his wife to heal from her ugly past. Once she steps away, she may begin to see things differently. Sometimes when we are too close to the situation we become blinded.
What is most important to you? What do you want at this point in time? Are you growing tired of focusing on your mom’s needs? Make your own life your priority.
Your mom may never decide what she wants.
You say that she doesn’t want to be ‘stuck’ in a condo in Florida or Arizona. She claims to want to travel the world, and live in Israel if you foot the bill.
You have been more than generous to her. Why should she be taking advantage of you? Would you ever expect this from your child? I know that I wouldn’t expect my children to pay for me to travel the world.
If this is what you truly want to do, then it is certainly your decision to make. What if she gets to Israel and then she decides that it doesn’t suit her fancy?
I just hope you won’t regret doing so much for her. She isn’t easily satisfied. She knows that she can continue to pull your strings and get a response.
She’s made it clear that she sees you as a bank account to satisfy her desires.
Have you given as much thought as to what you want? If you haven’t, please do, because your desires are important too.
Don’t empty your bank account for your mom without considering that you don’t know what your future holds and you may need those funds for yourself. Unless you are independently wealthy, everyone has to be concerned with how much they spend.
Do you think your mom is desiring these new experiences to numb herself from her past mistakes? She can’t deny her past. Does she show any remorse? Her behavior caused so much heartache for you. I wish that you didn’t have those memories. It’s terribly sad.
Have you ever tried to speak with her about therapy? Perhaps even going together if you are open to it. If you aren’t, it’s understandable and she can go on her own.
She has never and will never listen to my suggestions. She was not willing to have a one minute conversation about her plans 2 years ago. Only knows how to threaten to kill herself and write manipulative emails. she keeps telling us she isn’t going to stop and this isn’t going to end until we do more.
"100k in bank. We fund 35k. Social security 10k" Mom has 100k in the bank? If so, why are you giving her more?
I do understand why u feel the way you do, its called empathy. But the reason I have never looked for my BioDad is for the reason you should not have let Mom into your life. You never know what kind of the people that side of the family is like. I owe nothing to that man. My adopted father I knew from a year old. Only father I knew, I was satisfied. You are banging your head against the wall. She will not change. Nothing you do will help her. Buying her an ipad, she will sell it or lose it. Track her so you can protect yourself? You need to stop helping this woman. She is a stranger. As said, she made choices, now she is paying for it. You need to block her in all ways. She will be OK. She has done it on her own before, she will continue to so.
I know, its the Christian thing to do to help someone. I also believe we are here to live the life given us and grow in that life until we die. If we don't allow people to experience consequences for what they did wrong how are they going to learn and grow. Mom needs to hit bottom, no one owes her anything. She has to get off that bottom and do for herself. Only when she shows she is trying to do better can others reach out to help. My God! a Rabbi gave up on her. A man of God.
You need to block her in every way and let her go. She will be OK she will find a way.
P.S. And her threats...call her bluff. If she does threaten you take that info to the Police and show them proof she is/has blackmailed you. She can be arrested for blackmail then u can get her off by making a deal she is never to contact u again.
Some family members say mean and awful things. They will stick the knife in and then give it a good hard twist to make sure that they hurt us.
I once fell for hurtful tactics because I was lost in my own destructive thinking. Therapy helped me understand why I felt as I did and how to reprogram my thoughts on what I once felt.
I grew up in a family where I constantly heard the expression, “To keep peace…” Please be aware that ‘keeping the peace’ is often taken out of context and is a big, fat lie!
These subtle tactics are often used in an effort to control others. You will not be able to control her behavior by pacifying her. Please stop prolonging your agony and end this ‘so called’ relationship with her.
You are not keeping the peace by giving into her desires. You are doing the exact opposite. She is getting the response that she wants. She truly doesn’t deserve to receive any response from you. Giving to her causes mayhem in your life.
You are not in debt to her. You owe her nothing! If anyone is in debt, it’s her, not you. She skipped out on raising you. She owes you an apology and she should allow you to live in peace. She is responsible for the turmoil that she created for herself.
It can take awhile for us to completely understand what is happening because we are too close to the situation.
Once we completely step away from the chaos we will gain a clearer perspective on what has happened and how to prevent it from continuing.
Wishing you all the best as you navigate your way out of this mess. We are all behind you. This forum was an enormous comfort to me and I hope that it will be to you as well.
Why do you need to know “where she is”? My parents separated when I was 5, and I spent the rest of my dreadful father’s life not knowing ‘where he is’. Usually somewhere between England and Australia. When he had got money from somewhere, he would hop on a plane and could be anywhere. Worst place was turning up around my corner.
My sisters and I (well not my younger sister after she concluded that he had tried to push her down a flight of stairs) did our best for reasonable contact for decades because it seemed like the right thing to do. But there was no “nagging sadness that he isn’t welcomed by any family”, just gratitude for a shared understanding from the family. When he was in a NH, I flew 12,000 miles to see him one more time, following which he changed his will yet again to leave it all to the latest grifter (and I then had to deal with his local assets). We were shocked when he died – not sorry, just amazed that it could all be over.
My suggestion would be to report her to APS in the town where you think she is at the moment. They will care for her needs (if any) because it’s their job and they are paid to do it – guilt free. That includes finding her care and a place to live somewhere affordable. Get legal advice about what justifies a legal protection order where you are (they frequently have different names and different rules), and use it if you need to.
Be grateful that you have the ability to unlock your door and get out of this stupid situation. Do it! You are not alone in having a difficult parent. There is nothing ‘special’ about this one that should stop you being sensible. Judge yourself, not her, and use your brains a bit better. I know full well that it's difficult, but it is possible. Changing her is not.
You are being blackmailed by your mother. You think that if you pay her, she will stop bothering you.
The opposite is true, the more you pay, the more she will harrass, torture and gaslight you.
YOU and only you have the power to stop this insane dance--yes, insane, becasue you keep doing the same thing and think the outcome will be different.
Please stop responding to her. Let her threaten. She's full of hot air.
She is alone by choice, you can NOT care more about her then she does, it will suck your life force out.
She doesn't have a right to see you if you don't want to see her. That statement alone should get her completely cut off from ALL contact in EVERY form.
My dad kinda did the same thing, got divorced, forgot he had a daughter, made REALLY BAD choices, life turned to a chitshow and all of a sudden he wanted and needed me. NOPE! When I wanted and needed a dad, he had better things going, so I made my way and I wasn't going to let him hijack it because his choices didn't work out and now he was old and alone. I didn't put him there and I couldn't let him pull my life under to safe himself. It isn't about loving us, it's about realizing they now need someone because of their choices and they believe we are still that young child longing for a parents love and acceptance. And when that doesn't work, they use guilt, manipulation, I'm the parent and all other sorts of crap to get their way.
No! It is a complete sentence. You should tell your husband to do whatever he feels is best for the family and if that means a total disconnect, so be it.
She is playing you like a chump by the way. Please stop participating in her nonsense.
The truth is that you don’t owe her anything because she gave birth to you.
Do not be intimidated by her. You have the power to stop contributing to her. She feels entitled and she isn’t entitled to anything.
Many women give birth, but that doesn’t automatically make them a mother. A mother is the woman who cared for you while you were growing up and throughout your life. You don’t have a true relationship with her.
She abandoned you when you were young and she certainly didn’t come back into your life to show remorse or reconnect with you. She came back to use you. It’s all for her benefit.
Some people deserve second chances. Others don’t. Look at the entire picture. You haven’t gained anything from her returning, other than heartbreak.
Let go. This is a one way street. You deserve so much better.
1. Google "Fear, Obligation and Guilt" (F.O.G.). Read everything you can about it. THAT is what is destroying your life.
2. Are you in therapy? You need to be.
3. You fear she will "harm" you? She already HAS harmed you!!!!!!!! Stop communicating with her, change your phone number and STOP keeping track of her.
4. Have you asked a lawyer to send a "cease and desist" letter to stop the harrassment? If not, do so. I don't think there need to be threats, just harassment.
5. For the love of God, STOP sending her money.