Inappropriate comments in public. What do I do?

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Inappropriate comments in public. What do I do?

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Hi its Nazdrovia again
I probably sound like a broken record. My 85 yo father is frequently making rude and inappropriate comments. He's always had opinions on people but had a bit more discretion. But now he is worse and its sometimes about people I care about, more and more, where its getting to the point that I dread going out in public with him or even having a conversation with him. He comments on how fat a person is, or how someone's nostrils are too big or someone has tattoos esp on women which he hates. He points at them and its very embarrassing. If I don't agree with him or get annoyed at his comments he lashes out at me and turns it around so I'm the bad person. I just end up hating being with him. This is the same person who preaches religion constantly. When will it end????
Is this dementia related or he is just two faced and a nasty old man?

Alzheimer's & Dementia Behavior Change Mental Health

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Nazdrovia, what does your dad's doctor say about his lack of filter (very common in dementia) and his verbal abuse of you (gleaned from a previous thread)?

Do you need to take dad out in public?

How do you come to be living with him, or he with you?

Do you have plans to place him? Or to leave this abusive situation?

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No i dont have plans yet? BUT i know my husband will not put up with his nonsense much longer. Im not even sure if he has NPD but what ive learned of narcissists, everything is about them. I would be more than willing to put him into care if the situation gets worse

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This is dementia. My mom would make the same sorts of comments. To curtail it just try to keep conversation going, the mind active on anything else. It worked for my mom. Even calling attention, redirecting, to something else nearby and interesting to look at.

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Thankyou

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Regardless of what is causing his rude behavior, why do continue to take him out in public? If his behavior is that bad, leave him home, unless of course he has a Dr's appointment. There's no reason you have to continue putting yourself in an uncomfortable situation with him, when the solution is as simple as leaving him home.

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He insists on coming and sulks if I say no or I get the silent treatment.

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Inappropriate behavior, especially in a public setting, is a sign of dementia, but it's only one sign. People with dementia lose their inhibitions. What other unusual behavior do see you in your dad? Dementia presents itself in many symptomatic ways. If his PCP has already screened him for dementia, I hope he also referred your dad to a neurologist to determine the cause of his dementia. Without knowing the cause, you have no idea what you're dealing with.

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Well he doesn't expose himself or other inappropriate gestures. But he repeats the same things over and over.

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My very first question here at AC was about my dad’s rudeness and too frequent out loud thoughts. I received a consensus of answers that he had dementia. I took him to both family practice and neuropsych appointments for testing. He passed everything thrown at him with flying colors. To the week he died he continued to live alone, balance his checkbook, pay his bills, engage in conversation meaningfully on any number of topics, and be rational in every way. Except the mean or rude comments. His doctors told me repeatedly that it was a “loss of filters” and common in old age. During this time I saw an old teacher of mine, now in her 90’s, she’d been the sweetest, most docile person. She told me proudly that she’d enjoyed reaching the age where “I can say whatever I want” So I became a believer in the loss of filters (heck, maybe there’s a little part of me looking forward to it 😜) With my dad, I combatted it with some understanding (he was raised in a far different time with different norms) sometimes calling him out and trying to educate him (he did become less rude in some things or at least know it wouldn’t fly around me) and apologizing for him. He was kind and giving to his family and friends, just had this filter issue that we all grew tired of. If you can’t deal with it, it’s fine to not be around it

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I've tried calling him out on his rudeness and comment making and he says i'm picking on him or whingeing at him. So now I just keep my mouth shut and walk away.

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Whether it's dementia or just lack of filter, it's your father's 'right' to say and do as he pleases. Similarly, it's YOUR right to leave him home & see/deal with him as little as humanly possible.

We all make our choices in life and then live with the consequences of those choices.

Even if he has dementia, he'll eventually see that his behavior is causing you to back away from him & see him less & less. If he chooses to continue the rancid behavior, then he's made the decision to see less & less of his daughter. Unless his dementia is advanced, he's aware of what he's doing, the choices he's making, and the effect it's having on the relationship with his daughter.

Good luck!

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Thats very interesting what you said of him being aware if what he's saying etc. I wondered many times if he does know this. My husband reckons he does know and doesnt care. I dont think he is advanced. However he has always put people in their place for most if his life, not caring if he offends them or not. Im finding myself wishing it would end more and more.

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My 93 year old grandma in law told me that she had lived long enough to say whatever she wanted, regardless of what anyone else thought.

I see this behavior in 95% of people that I interact with that are over 75 years old and it gets worse as the age increases. So I think that they have become tired of holding their tongues and see no benefit from not speaking their mind.

I would tell my loved ones that something said was unkind or rude when it was said. It does help a bit, as they don't want to be corrected in public and I don't want them to hurt someone's feelings, so it is a good compromise. They don't get corrected and feelings don't get hurt if they use some discretion when speaking.

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I recall a story about an old woman who was known for saying kind things all her life, even when she was old. Someone asked her how she managed to do this, and her answer was "Before any words come out of my mouth, I taste them first."

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Looks like the royals have been leaving Prince Phillip at home for a while now.. 😉 Maybe his 'witty honesty' crossed into thoughtless insults too.

I'd visit him at home instead.

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Beatty I really don't understand your reply. He's living in our home.

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Another trick I used was to interrupt mom. I knew when it was coming. This also worked well. It completely interrupted the sick, dying brain train of thought.

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That's a good idea too. Thanks.

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My FIL - while not diagnosed currently with dementia - also has no filter. In our case a lot of that is the narcissism. But we admittedly even outside of COVID, avoid taking him places unless absolutely necessary. He appears to not even realize that his comments are rude, embarrassing, racist, sexist, just about any 'ist' you can imagine. To his mind he thinks he is showing solidarity. Example telling a very young waitress (younger than his youngest granddaughter) how cute she is and that he wishes he was younger so they could go out (to some this seems like a cute little old man being funny but you'd have to see it to understand the leering, the grin, the things he says after she leaves the table - it's a dirty old man thing not a cute old man. He doesn't limit it to other people either. He will sit at the table and tell other people OUR private business. I literally told my DH that he's not to share anything personal with his dad anymore because it becomes public news (Oh, but woe to he that tells FIL's private business!! Hell to pay!)

You mention that he always had opinions but more discretion. Though FIL hasn't been diagnosed with dementia, we suspect it. And I can agree with you that his filter is gone and he thinks he can say anything he likes. I don't know if it is because he no longer realizes how offensive what he is saying, if the people he is saying it to play it off as unintentional or out of his control and therefore he has no consequences. But it does seem that he no longer realizes that what he is saying is wrong in any way.

Our solution is likely not the best, but the combination of his lack of filter with his increasing immobility (by choice!) makes it nearly impossible to take him anywhere. He still comments to home health, PT, OT, anyone else who comes to the house and it is mortifying and we end up apologizing to nearly everyone he comes into contact with. Again that may be the narcissism. THAT is definitely getting worse as he gets older and his cognitive decline becomes more apparent. He feels that he has the right to say anything he likes and people in deference to his superiority should not be offended.

As GladImHere suggested - we also interrupt him and redirect when we can. But he often catches us so off guard that we don't even realize what he has said until after he has completed his thought.

It certainly keeps you on your toes.

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That is a total description of my dad, although he doesn't flirt with waitresses but he'll point and say "look.at that fat sheila" or other equally offensive remarks that I try to ignore, and yes I do also suspect apart from having dementia, he is narcissistic in the instance of not accepting criticism of his remarks or others opinions. I really don't know how much of it is dementia.

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Since your father gives you "the silent treatment and sulks if you say no to him," he knows exactly what he is doing and has full control of his behaviors, AND is manipulating you to comply to his requests.
The aforementioned indicates he is deliberately being rude, most likely because reactions entertain him, which in layman's terms, he could be described as "a two faced and nasty old man."

Unfortunately, if that's the case, then the only solution is to understand that he will not "change," because he is internally rewarded thru everyone's shocked reactions (positive or negative-as long as someone reacts). In other words, all of the reactions are his reward, and thus motivation to continue provoking, and eliciting reactions from others.

With that understanding you become empowered, due to the predictability of his behaviors.

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Thankyou. That sounds incredibly true.

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I have seen information cards, the size of a business card. It states something to this effect.
Please be patient, the person I am with has Dementia.
These cards can be handed out to servers or other people in stores. It could also be given to anyone that the person with dementia may have made a comment about or to. It does not excuse the comment but does explain it. I think the cards I saw were from The Alzheimer’s Association. They may have them for sale or a script that can be provided to a printer.
It could be dementia. Often “normal” filters are lost. This is why you will hear of people exposing themselves, urinating in inappropriate locations, swearing or becoming violent just to list a few. Not everyone does these things but be on the watch for things your loved one did not or would not do in the past

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I carry these with me and yes they are available FREE to download and print on ALZ site. They don't make up for the outbursts (in my husband's case rare) but do explain behavior and why I am "in charge" when we go out to eat and he can't navigate the menu, the restroom, or gets the wait staff attention in an indiscreet manner. I've had positive comments using those cards. The manager of restaurant came to our table to insure that all was fine with our meal but it became evident she was visibly moved. She let me know discreetly she wanted to express her gratitude for using the card that she said would be very helpful to her family to know about and print. Something that our waitress confirmed as we parted . I highly recommend the cards.

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Oh my goodness Nazdrovia, I can relate!!!

My grandma in the NH had no filter at all. "Look at that woman! She's so fat!" she used to shout. Or "that lady's a B*TCH!" not even bothering to keep her voice down at all.

Or worst of all!! Many of the aides were Haitian. And she'd always tell me in a VERY loud stage whisper when they would come by "All these people are BLACK!!"

Oh my goodness. I have to laugh!!

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🤣🤣Sometimes that's all you can do.

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How about looking at your father and saying firmly ‘Be Quiet’.

I did this once in a supermarket queue, and it came from the gut without me thinking. A couple my age were in the queue behind me, the guy looked like ‘I’m too important for this shopping, it’s stupid women’s work’. The person in front of me was having trouble at the checkout with their card and pin, and this guy starts up loudly saying blah blah blah. I turned around and said ‘Be Quiet’. His wife grinned, his face froze and he went totally silent.

If they really know that it's rude, Keep It Simple!

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I have a feeling that I would get into trouble if I responded like you did to certain people around me, but it would be incredibly satisfying to speak without a filter to a few annoying people! LOL

Come to think of it, I did have to be brutally honest with my husband’s grandmother in public a few times because her comments were so outrageous that I was afraid that I would be killed as the innocent bystander.

I can’t even repeat the things she said in restaurants, shopping centers, etc.

A few times, I pretended not to know her! LOL 😂

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Definitely sounds like dementia. Part of dementia, especially Alzheimer's type, is noted to have a loss of executive functions - decision-making. At some point, sufferers lose their social filter, anything they think of is said. Sorry that you are learning about his unsavory thoughts and that he can not keep from saying what he thinks. Just remember that these are his perceptions and not yours. You do not have to excuse his behavior or condone it. but accept it as part of who he is. You may counter his unsavory public opinions that malign others with more flattering ones, especially in the hearing of those others who may not understand his problems. With COVID still as a problem, it might be wiser to limit his interactions with outsiders... and it will limit doing unthinking damage.

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His comments may not be part of who he is, instead part of his disease. He cannot control it.

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Thankyou to all who have answered. Your advice has been very helpful and valuable.

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When people have dementia, their formal social controls break down. Most people use appropriate filters, for the most part - until their brains are not working properly.

For example, my aunt was formerly an old-fashioned schoolmarm with the gray hair in a bun. She developed dementia and began to lose her filter. At her assisted-living place, she became obsessed with using the word "ass." When her daughter, my cousin, would come to visit, Aunt M. would point to one of the aides and say, "Look at the fat ass on that one!"

My father, who also had dementia, started using the F-bomb a lot when he was in assisted living. Although he was a factory worker and might use rough language at work, he did not use it in social settings - until he got dementia.

Basically, you just need to learn to "go with the flow" regarding these inappropriate comments and not let them get to you.

Also, it may get to the point where you can no longer take him out in public.

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Thanks for sharing, couldn't help but laugh. I have dealt with my mother saying some things in public that made me cringe. One time I apologized to someone for her and quietly told the person my mom had dementia. They were great about it.

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You have to SET LIMITS--if he makes so much as one more rude comment you can refuse to take him out. The problem with some elderly, roles get reversed and you become the parent to one's own parent.

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That is impending at a rapid rate.

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It is always interesting to read everyone's comments. What I have discovered is that what works one time might not work another time. For each of us going through this "valley of dementia" with our loved ones we can hold on to one truth. Dementia/Alzheimers/Parkinsons etc. changes our loved ones - it changes us as well. 40 years ago, my Dad was visiting our home and mistook who I was and pushed a $50 bill in my hand and tried to kiss me. I pushed against him and he landed on our sofa. I left the house with my daughter and stayed away several hours. The next day, my doctor arranged to see my Dad. During the course of his visit, I put an inside lock on our master bedroom door. He never had any memory of this incident but it was upsetting. I had to realize he was disoriented and in his right mind he would never do this.

Now, my husband has dementia/alzheimers and I have done all I can to educate myself so I can aide him and the number #1 rule is "the disease is to blame" and "not to take things personally". Easier said than done. For all of us...it is indeed stressful and there are so many triggers...hang in. Use support systems and this forum, and I wish each of you patience, comfort and strength.

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Yes unfortunately I have the misfortune to take things to heart. I wish I was tougher and more thick skinned

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These filter changes do happen with dementia and I don’t believe they have any real control over it but depending on where they are in the journey they can recognize and control when reminded, sometimes. My Mom for instance can be gently reminded by saying “Mom she could hear that” or something quietly just to mom and she will react as though she didn’t realize she said whatever it was out loud. I typically use a private agreement type approach that indicates I get what she is saying but would never say it out loud kind of thing. In our case my mom is very hard of hearing though so I’m often not quite sure if she just doesn’t know how loud she is being or is simply missing her life long filter. I will say she swears often which is not what I grew up with and it’s always a bit shocking to hear her say these things or even speak negatively about someone but I try to take it in stride and make it a between us sort of thing. You could give the inside joke thing a try rather than scolding him which probably makes him dig his heels in more but it may not work in his case. Getting mad and setting boundaries I think is unlikely to work because he really doesn’t have control of the filter and isn’t understanding the social faupau he’s committing anymore, it’s apt to simply make you more frustrated than stop him. I love the card idea, we had one for my mom when she ventured out on her own after her stroke (aphasia) but one for us to hand out is a great idea! From my perspective not only does it help explain the current situation it helps educate the public about what might be going on with elderly people who commit these offenses. It’s very much like being with a young child who is curious about the world and hasn’t learned to have a filter yet, the world tends to let their comments slide more “mommy why is that woman so fat?” “Because I don’t exercise enough” smile, wink rather than “how dare you!” which might be more of what you get when your dad says the same thing (without the mommy part). The sad truth is the filter issue isn’t much different except for the fact your elder can’t learn to have a filter, in fact it may simply get worse. But if you find a way to deal with it for yourself, so you aren’t feeling so guilty and put out, it won’t be so bad and might even be a way to educate that you can feel good about. Wouldn’t it be nice if we could give each other knowing smiles rather than scowls when our elders do these embarrassing things the way we do with young children?

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Lymie61, this reminds of something my parents told me that, although not directly relevant, is rather funny and illustrates the point. My older sister was at a stage during her early childhood (perhaps 3 or 4 y/o) at which, according to our mother, she "noticed everything". Our parents and my sister were traveling, and stopped at a gas station (back in the early 1950s when the stations all pumped the gas). The man who came out to pump the gas had a huge "gut" and my sister's eyes lit up when she saw him. My mother said she was thinking "oh, can we get away from here before she says something?" They almost made it, but just as my father was paying the man, my sister said "oh, Mommy, look at that man's great big tummy!" loud enough that he would have heard it. Nothing else was said afterward as far as I know, but our parents were embarrassed and happy to drive away. However, I'm sure the man had heard similar comments before.

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Hello Naz, so sorry but I had to laugh. I would not take him out until he behaves. Try to reason with him but it might not work. Good luck! Please don't be mad about the laughing, we all need a good laugh these days.. My mother is a very quiet and reserved person most of the time and she still is out in public and at home but if she acted up I certainly would not take her out in public. One day we were at a store and I took my mom to the accessible restroom. She did not want us to change her clothes so it took some time She kept yelling don't strip me. Another time she was on the pot in the restroom, I had to go to the car to get some clothes she was soaked. My niece was with my mom .Someone kept knocking on the door and my niece thought it was me. She said just a minute and the gentleman said are you almost done I've got three kids out here. My niece said it is going to be awhile my grandmother is on the pot and can't get her up by myself. My mother replied I am a cripple you dam fool. She said it loud and clear. He left after that. I was so surprised at my mom, She never spoke like that to us or anyone else. The first story above I told her don't embarrass me or I will never take you out again. She has not acted up like that since the last time .I can reason with my mom but I know some folks it is more difficult. It just might be time not to take him in public any longer. Perhaps a nice ride in the country for an ice cream or park at the beach and enjoy the calmness of the ocean. I wish you the best, I know it is difficult but with small changes things might turn out for the better. The best to you.

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EB,

My prim and proper godmother used to go out to lunch with my elderly cousin every week, who was also a very prim and proper woman.

My cousin said she would politely excuse herself to go to the ladies room.

When she went back to the table, my godmother would ask her in a very loud voice, “Did everything come out okay?” 😂 LOL

My cousin was embarrassed to go out to eat with her. Of course, later on we found out that my godmother had ALZ and eventually moved into a nursing home.

I made the mistake of asking my husband’s grandmother how she felt, just before dining in a fancy uptown restaurant. I was in my 20’s at the time. Trust me, never ever again did I ask her how she felt in public!

She blurted out, in a very loud voice, “I have tightness of the stool. I need a laxative!” 😂

LOL, I wanted to crawl under the table. Everyone heard her comment. The man at the next table pushed his plate away. She ruined his appetite. Others were either laughing or had shocked looks on their faces!

She didn’t have ALZ. She was just a nutcase! 😂

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It might be the beginnings of dementia. As mentioned below, the filters change. I also noticed that with my father, who I think had slight dementia when he passed away in his 90s. My father was hard of hearing, and he also spoke his comments in a very loud voice in public. We were in a museum and he loudly commented on how bad the art was! My experiences with my mother (with advanced dementia now) is that you can't do much to change people who have dementia. Often they are no longer capable of learning. Everyone is different. Some people don't realize that their minds are declining. So you have to be gentle with him, try to change the subject if that works. With my mother I had to stop taking her to restaurants, because she forgot her table manners and behaved like a young child, playing with her food.

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This is my feeling from a caregiver's point-of-view: This situation is causing you tremendous stress, which is understandable. It would cause me terrible stress.

As you know, stress is not healthy for you and can take its toll over time.
So my short answer is to not travel with your father once you have tried all the suggestions. I thought "be quiet," might work as it is a direct command without any editorializing or explaining.

I do understand, deeply, how awful this situation is. I hope you can work this out.

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Thankyou i can only see another 10 years of stress.

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I am probably butchering the science here, but please bear with me. Mom had a serious stroke in 2009, which left here basically unable to speak. Her word finding was extremely hard, leaving her almost speechless. However, she had no problem with cussing, or yelling no whenever something displeased her. My niece, who is a speech pathologist explained that that type of language is stored in a different area of the brain. The common words we use without really thinking about them, like OK, sure, yes, no, and unfortunately swear words are easier to access when the brain in damaged, depending on the areas that are damaged. When my hubby gets loud and profane out in public, I just tell people he has dementia. People are overall pretty kind when they know what's going on. I hope this helps.

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Thankyou it does 😊

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With my mom she would make false accusations against me loudly in public or press my buttons and laugh when I would be standing there shaking trying to hold it in.
Now it has come back to haunt her.
She needs help to go shopping and I refuse to help her so now I do the shopping myself. She used to be a real social butterfly but now because I refuse to go out in public with her she is regulated to staying in one room in her house. It is pure living Hell for her but she deserves it.
May I suggest you politely and firmly inform your dad his behavior is not welcomed and if he does it again you will just walk away and leave him where he is. And, you will never go out in public with him again.

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Yes i think I will do that.

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Hi Nazdrovia. I find that the people who preach religion constantly don't actually do anything but preach about it. They certainly don't live it. Much of the time when our "beloved" seniors think that because they've reached a certain age that it gives them a free pass to say anything they want no matter how hurtful or inappropriate without fear of consequences. Sometimes it's the dementia. Either way it means the person can't be taken out anymore.

Here's what you can do with your father.
Tell him you will no longer be taking him out of the house because his behavior is cruel, inappropriate and that being seen with him is an embarrassment you are no longer willing to bear. This is one way to handle it.
There's this way too.
When you have to bring him somewhere and he starts with the behavior treat him exactly the way you'd treat a child acting up. Call him out in front of everyone then make him apologize to the person he's talking about offensively.
I've had many homecare clients who thought they were entitled to say anything they might be thinking. I had one who every day had to keep telling me I was fat and needed to lose weight. I look fine, but she'd viciously critique everything you can imagine and this woman liked me. I used to take her out all the time. She was embarrassing in public about other people too. Her kids who rarely even saw her claimed she had dementia but it wasn't officially diagnosed.
One day it just got to me and I gave it back. I said that if she says one more thing I would leave her. That I'm the only person who goes to her house and helps her. I'm the only one who takes her out. I told her that no one else visits and her kids don't care. I told her that if I leave she can go rot in a nursing home because no one else is going to do for her.
She never made another comment to me again after that. She never made one to a stranger in public again either. Give this a try with your father.

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Thankyou Burnout. When my father made the very nasty comment about my husband's ex wife, and I reacted angrily, he said in a totally "poor me" self pitying thing he's doing all the time now, he said then that he'd better find somewhere else to live and will have to pack all his things and go somewhere else. Boo hoo!!
Mind you, he is living in the house of my very kind and generous husband who has put him up because he loves me.
But i think i will be getting to the point where I will call him out on his BS soon. I'm just waiting for someone to react to it.

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My mom's filter "went," when she had Alzheimer's, but it had the reverse effect of your dad's. She'd ask total strangers at the grocery store: "How's the family?" It's finer to ask that of people whom you know, but to complete strangers? Apparently, since in reality, my mom probably knew (or recognized) no one, she pretended to know everyone. I mouthed the word "Alzheimer's" to the other people, and they understood, (even if my mom didn't). Maybe you could do the same, so people would feel less insulted. I even wrote a book about our travails taking care of my mom called, "My Mother Has Alzheimer's and My Dog Has Tapeworms: A Caregiver's Tale." I viewed her indiscretions as part of the disease. Best of luck.

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Mind you often people who preach religion can be judgemental no? 🤣 My mum can say some things I tend to roll my eyes and say “I do apologise for my elderly mother” but would it work if you set some boundaries before you went out? E.g. Dad w are going shopping but can you not point at people in public as it’s offending people. Perhaps tell me what you think once we are home?” If not frankly it would have to be “I’m not sure we should go out today if you are
going to say things about people? Shall we try it but I’m bringing you home if it carries on.” He will be hostile like a toddler but I know at least a toddler grows out of it, whereas he is growing INTO IT! 😬

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Oh my God yes. Very true.

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First of all, this is totally unacceptable and I don't care if it is personality or not, it cannot be tolerated. Immediately put him firmly in his place so he understands and apologize to others that he has dementia and to please ignore his illness. Second, if he does this, why on earth are YOU taking him out in public. If he cannot be controlled, he belongs in a facility - not with you or in society.

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Rusty 2166 Your reply sounds an awful lot like Riley2166. Could be wrong, but advice is nearly verbatim to riley posts. Always says put the person firmly in their place and if they don't do what you tell them to, put them in a facility...and it never matters if the person has dementia.

You really can't put a person with dementia in their place. You cannot reason with a brain that is broken. So if you are dealing with behavior issue, you really have to determine if they even understand what you are complaining about. If you approached a newborn baby and point blank told the kid they were not going to cry anymore or that you were not going to put up with crying anymore -- do you think the baby really understands that conversation? And, while I suppose it could happen, wonder how many toddlers were taken to the orphanage because they didn't follow direction after they were 'put in their place'.

If poster's dad is aware of what he says, then okay to have the chat with him or just quit taking him out in public unless it's medically necessary. If he doesn't always know, then just be prepared to apologize to people and explain his condition. He may or may not need facility care - you'll know when he does.

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The answer is YES , to both ..

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Inappropriate comments in public. What do I do?

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