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Ok - so I just got back into my place and fixed their dinner, cleaned up and now with hubby and baby Romeo - but we are going up later to hang out a little and help them with my Dad's new contraption for the kidney stone to be melted. He did say I can never compare myself to your husband and my mom agreed. The other thing I wanted to tell you guys is that my mom always said I don't know anyone in the world who has the relationship like Dad and me - very, very close, and who had the best honeymoon and who had the best life etc. I once answered that and said - why, my husband and I are very, very close to one another and we had a blast on our honeymoon and we traveled like you, and we also have a blast together - what is her problem??? Oh come on Mom - stop the nonsense - you're not the only couple who is so so close to one another and in the meantime she tells me Dad is so miserable and says your husband isn't like him. There are other people that enjoy their lives no matter how boring they may be and they enjoy it together as a loving couple!
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AlvaDeer Sep 1, 2024
Sounds to me as though you truly ENJOY this constant ongoing bicker. Thinking I will leave you to it and wish you much joy of it.
Remember, it takes two. You own 50% of this whole dance.
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Alva - I know we have corresponded before - I don't enjoy this. I try and joke about it with my mom because I know she is not well and I try to help her with her mental issues, which I know she has. It's not funny and I don't enjoy bickering. I have PTSD from my abusive brother and went with my parents to help them move him 7 times. I don't think any of this is pleasurable. I'm here for support, not for kicks. Someone last time on this forum accused me of wanting to get "kicks" out of posting - I don't think so!
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My aunt, uncle, cousin and maternal grandmother lived next door to us for 30 years. I thought my parents would be similar where my grandmother visited only at night for an hour, not ALL day and ALL night. My mom is not my grandmother. My grandmother was not needy. It amazes me how an independent woman, living many days alone while her husband was away, ran businesses could change into this needy person when she was around 50 something years old. How can that happen?
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PeggySue2020 Sep 2, 2024
Your mom is simply a different person than your grandma. Like I said, your mother wasn’t raised to behave this way, not by grandma and not even by mainstream standards at the time.
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Another rant is that I have been trying to help them straighten out a few things with their doctors etc. and teach them how to use the TV etc. and my mom said that nor wonder your husband gets annoyed with you. Gee, thanks mom - even though I may sound authoritative at times, after all that I have done for you - that's what you say? I actually never said that, but I am on the verge.
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Geaton777 Sep 2, 2024
Romeo13, if your parents are in their 90s it is entirely possible that their filters are now breaking due to cognitive decline. They will say all sorts of painful things that they would not have 10 years ago (and that they don't really mean as this is what dementia does to the brain). My Mom is 95 and, although a "prickly" person most of her life, has reached a new level of prickliness. She lives next door to me so every day I have to remind myself that it's her onset of dementia talking at me. You have so much going on in your lives -- I wish you and your husband better health, much wisdom and total peace in your hearts as you move forward. Blessings to you!
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Learn the word “ No “ .

Mom can’t force you to stay with her .

Back off , let them fend for themselves . They should either hire help or go to assisted living .

“ Stop helping them “ , was the most wise thing ever said to me from a social worker.”

Again , Back off , your parents will have to accept help in other ways , either by them paying for a helper to come to the house or they go to assisted living .
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Romeo, given that your husband is chemotherapy, please focus your energy on him and what he wants and needs during this time. My mil was hospitalized 12 times for not just chemo but the side effects. When you’re on chemo, you feel like death. You also know that death is, for the duration, holding your hand.

If you need to run it by his oncologist to have a medical opinion on it, please do so. I’m sure the doctor would agree.

Offer to sign your parents up for DoorDash, Uber and Amazon. Offer to vet weekly housekeepers who can tidy up. Leave your dad with a list of agencies and their prices. It is dad’s right to refuse as he is competent.

Your husband needs you with him more than your parents do at this time.
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Romeo13 Sep 1, 2024
Thank you PeggySue - My husband is in recovery from the radiation treatment and chemo. He still has the feeding tube. I am here for him now and taking care of him and taking care of Romeo the Papillon, who everyone knows him as a puppy. I had chemotherapy for my breast cancer and a double mastectomy with no reconstruction. I am on Endocrine therapy which has many side effects - I know how horrific this all can be. I can't believe that after my breast cancer just 5 years ago, my husband had Tonsil Cancer. My parents reached their 90's together which is wonderful. It's not all bad, but recently all of my mom's traits that I never liked are coming out worse. Thank you for your concern. I
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W-a-a-y too much drama! The older I've gotten, the less drama I need in my life. I'm about 5-1/2 years younger than your mom, and I cannot imagine such a soap opera existence.
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Guess what everyone? Mom called to tell my husband who was sleeping that the door will be open and he can just walk in to help Dad with that contraption he got for his kidney stones. My husband said he'll do it at 10 am - he can wait. My husband is feeding himself through his G tube right now. I don't want to sound harsh, but my Dad reached 96 with cancer etc. - my 65 year old husband, which I didn't mention, besides just finishing up with tonsil cancer may have prostate cancer (waiting for the biopsy) and definitely has a benign brain tumor to deal with, so my Dad is just going to have to wait. I can imagine what my mom is saying about us. So glad he stood his ground! I don't mind helping like I said - I don't like demands placed on me with angry faces and sarcasm - making it sound like I haven't lifted a finger in 40 years. I'm tired of saying - Ok, I'll do it because I don't want her to hold a tantrum and I don't want to "hurt" her feelings.

You are all right - I made a HUGE mistake!
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Anxietynacy Sep 2, 2024
We all make mistakes, Romeo. First step they say to healing is admitting it.
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Should your husband be doing anything for Dad? I am sorry Romeo but give your DH a break and place your parents in a nice AL on their dime. You get "in home" in to help your Dad with this contraption. You can get an order thru Dads doctor.
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Romeo13 Sep 2, 2024
There will be aids coming this week - my husband is teaching my mom how to do it right now. Thank you!
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I want everyone to know I just told my mom give me a shopping list over the phone and she screamed - come up for it! I told her I'm not going up - give it to me over the phone. She yelled at me saying then don't come up and she hung up on me. What is her problem??? For heavens sake - I was in the middle of doing my husband's bed linens and I'm not taking that crap anymore! I told my Dad this and he is more understanding about things - he just takes Mom's crap now. He gave me the list over the phone.
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cwillie Sep 2, 2024
That's a good first step. Next step is to not answer the phone if it's inconvenient.
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Tell your parents that they need to go to assisted living . This is ridiculous . If they say “ No”……
You BACK OFF , STOP HELPING .
Call APS .

Your mother isn’t going to change . She’s an uncooperative , needy person who expects to be waited on .
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Romeo13 Sep 2, 2024
Just wanted to say thank you and I love that pussycat!
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Romeo, most or all of your problem is your reluctance to acknowledge how much you prioritize mom and dads feelings over your husbands physical needs. You’re beyond the point of the “what if I die” whining to get you to cook, eat, shop and clean for them.

Remission at this point is not guaranteed. And he has a benign brain tumor. Now there may be prostate cancer.

There is a nonzero possibility that you may be bidding him goodbye. You may yourself need an aide for some of this, but until you do, spend maximum moments with him watching birds on the deck, or taking in a home movie, etc. with the goal of getting him well enough so that you two do go out to that dinner or onto a cruise. Their death at 96 and 93 is somewhat inevitable whereas a death at 65 is that much more tragic. Especially for you.
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Romeo13 Sep 3, 2024
Thanks PeggySue - I know - in fact, I have lung nodules that doctors are watching that it's not going to be metastatic breast cancer. We were dealt a really bad hand, like a lot of people and children in life. My parents lived a nice life even though I know they have a lot of sadness by not having their abusive son in their lives -but they should be lucky that they reached their 90's TOGETHER! Last night I went up to check on them and then left earlier than usual. I'm taking baby steps to get them used to the idea of less time together. My mom said come up and read me a letter I was discussing over the phone with her and I replied - I can't - I'm straightening up and going to give Romeo a good run in the park and won't be up until much later. I'm not worried - she's sunning herself in the open window - she loves to do that, so you see?? She's doing what she wants to do. I woke up this morning and for some reason didn't even think about them because I met all of their needs yesterday. The only thing is I was having hearing hallucinations thinking my phone was ringing. I think I can start handling this - because if they were in Florida, I wouldn't be seeing them for 2 months at a time.
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You've heard of the 'separation anxiety' development stage that infants go through?

I feel adults reach an age, become elders, cycle backwards & hit that stage again.

They want you. Only you. Their real needs, their perceived needs, their anxiety, their wishes will EAT UP YOUR life.

Until you make changes.
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Anxietynacy Sep 3, 2024
Beatty, That is a really great way to put it. it's kind of what I was saying about shadowing being a sign of dementia.

I think many many older people go through this with or without dementia.
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Romeo, I also want to say, once you start to gain your freedom, I'm actually not sure how to put this . So I'll tell you how I feel

I'm really gaining my freedom, brothers are doing a most right now, I'm not being sent on all these needless errands anymore. A tomato from this farm stand, and then corn from a different one.

Anyways I'm starting to feel a bit lost, like what do I do with myself kind of feeling, moms being rather grumpy to me the last week. A few weeks ago she was love bombing me. It also feels odd to not feel needed. I'm also feeling a bit angry at myself for putting up with as much as I did put up with though the years.

Just want you to know these are normal feelings, so don't run back to mom the minute they come out.
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Romeo13 Sep 3, 2024
My mom thanked me just now for something. Like you said, that's today!
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I don’t have time to read all of this; it’s a beautiful day and I need to get outside into the garden so I won’t be feeding my husbands ‘needs’ all day : )
Could you make mom a weekly calendar of when you plan to drop in?
For instance: Mon. and Thurs., sometime between 11 and 2
Sun., 6pm every other week for dinner

The less detailed, the better. Then stick to it.
Do it on a white board so it can be easily changed and take a picture of it with your phone so you can remember what you committed to since you won’t be in there very often to see it!
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Romeo13 Sep 3, 2024
Yes, I also have to stop wondering what she is thinking about me right now, but I asked her if she would like to get out and take the dogs to the park - she said - no. Ok, I told her I'll see you later. Good answer? I'm 64 and need approval - this is crazy!
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Romeo, I will tell you the comment my cousin made when told that her mom had finally passed from complications of dementia. "This is the worst best news I've ever heard." And her mom was never a problem.

Keep it in mind for when your Mom the Terror passes. It may give you comfort. OMG, I can't believe what you've been through with these two. Good luck going forward.

PS - Don't ASK if you can sign them up for food delivery from Walmart and Amazon. Just do it using their credit card. The food arrives at their door and they freak out. And you say nothing because you did your duty and sent the dang food. You don't even answer the phone. They can pull the limbs off that cute lil Walmart rotisserie chicken just fine by themselves.
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Romeo13 Sep 3, 2024
I'm going to try that - thanks!
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Romeo,
Question,
How much time do you spend with your girlfriends?
Having coffee, going for lunch, shopping.
How much time you and husband spend with other couples?
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Romeo13 Sep 3, 2024
Zero - I hate to say this - we hang out just with each other - may be weird, but we moved and weren't able to cultivate friendships due to certain circumstances. My brother was a HUGE problem and now we just stay to ourselves, especially that we have our health issues for the past 5 years. We really enjoy one another's company. We really couldn't concentrate on friendships - a lot of stuff going on!
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"She made a face and asked me why and I said I'll be back later and she said you don't have to - stay down there (angrily)"
That is the same passive/aggressive response I used to get from my aunt. Fine. I stayed where I belonged. In my own home.
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Romeo13 Sep 3, 2024
I'm starting to feel stronger - thanks to all of my friends here!
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I’ve come to the conclusion that it’s absolutely ridiculous to walk on eggshells around a parent who professes to “ live ( independently) in their home” .

Years ago I was raised that what that meant was that I had to prop them up . I was raised to be my parents caregiver .

Now I believe that the elderly person has to accept that whether they live at home or in a facility that their life is changing due to age .

Don’t be afraid to say “ No” . We aren’t required to keep up their lifestyle the way they want it . I was told by my mom that I had to keep her “ routine “ the same. My FIL told us that we had to keep up his “ independent lifestyle “. Nope , nope , nope , we refused to take him on cruises that he wanted . That would not have been a vacation for us . He also demanded we take him to a fancy restaurant every weekend and requested my adult children come as well .

If You help them , they accept the help you are willing or able to do . If they don’t like it , that’s too bad , they either hire someone or they go live in assisted living . The parent receiving help does not call the shots because they are not independent , they are dependent .
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Romeo13 Sep 3, 2024
I just went upstairs to tell them about something and I helped my Dad pick something to eat and didn't offer to prepare it, didn't set the table and just said I'll see you later with my husband - only because he hasn't seen them since my Dad was released from the hospital - but it's on our terms, not theirs. I think I'm starting to set the tone and if she doesn't like it - too bad! Thank you!
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Romeo, you are getting such good advice here. Advice from waytomisery and hopefull for help , they really nailed it, for my life also.

My mom's being very passive aggressive the last week or 2. Actually today it's started to bug me a little.

So what there saying I needed to hear too.

I have been feeling very strong emotionally very up, for a month or more, today a little melancholy . So I'm just letting you know, if you do what we are helping you though, you will have an occasional off day, not to be surprised.

It's a bit of a rollercoaster. Just keep moving forward.
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Romeo13 Sep 3, 2024
Ok! I'm happy, but not happy we and most posters are in the same boat! I just posted about not helping them out with dinner - I'm actually proud of myself. When they were in Florida - my Dad drove to the supermarket everyday and he said he wants to drive here, but I don't want him driving our cars. They were fine in Florida, but since we're here, I felt sorry for them and there you go! Thank you again!
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So when I left tonight, after I gave my mom an ice pop, I said love you and she replied in a deep "pouty" voice love you. Tomorrow I'm taking her for her nails and she'll be happy and not care about anything. You know in Florida my Dad dropped her off for her nails and hair - walker and all even brought her dog - no problem at all! So why all the pouting??? Anyway, I'm going to stand my ground and thank you once again!
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PeggySue2020 Sep 3, 2024
This situation won’t realistically change while you’re running to moms with popsicles, running up there to get mom to walk her dog with you, and being wholly focused on mom’s approval.
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Ok Peggy - I'm still learning.
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sp196902 Sep 3, 2024
We learn and change by doing. Repeating the behavior and action to produce the results you want.

Your parents are pretty old and I fear you are too conditioned and emeshed to make the changes needed to be fully autonomous from your parents.

But any small steps you make are better than doing nothing at this point.

I wonder how you got them to agree to move to VA because last year when you posted you said they loved FL and would never move. Did they decide to move closer to you because you started visiting less?
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I think this arrangement is a mixed generation sharehouse.

At present the older two are in a separate nearby condo, within the same building. The older housemates are already too anxious to be alone. They will soon move into the same condo. Then when walking becomes difficult, into the living room into electric beds.

I don't see any other pathway here.

So at least I hope it will be a loving & fun household. Like the Golden Girls sitcom.
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waytomisery Sep 3, 2024
I figured Romeo will end up staying with the parents 23/7 at some point . I hope we are both wrong .
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Romeo ,
instead of running upstairs all the time to “ check on them “ what if you put a camera in their condo ?
But don’t stare at it constantly .
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sp196902 Sep 3, 2024
Thats a great idea.
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Replying to a poster - No I'm, definitely not in my 20's - I'm sounding like a child because my mom babied me - believe or not - I'm a YOUNG 64 - don't act or look it either - I take after my parents - you would never guess that they are 90 plus! My husband is the same way. Maybe no kids? But then again we had a lot of "family" issues. No - probably just genetics and just that my parents did give us a lot of attention and love. I just don't appreciate the controlling aspect of this whole thing.
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sp196902 Sep 4, 2024
OP I am not disputing your biological age but your mental age because you seem frozen in time because of what your parents did to you. What they did was not love, not even in the slightest. You are right it was control. It is like they hobbled you from growing up by keeping you near them and with them ALL the time.

What is the longest you went without seeing your parents? I suspect this dynamic of you visiting them for months at a time (when they were in FL) or them visiting you for months at a time has been going on for a very long time - if not for your entire life.

That is why you are unable to separate yourself from them - you are like conjoined twins. Neither you or your parents (mom more so than dad) can function or be apart for very long since it is all you know.

And now as they are getting older and more needy this dynamic is just rapidly escalating (especially for your mother) as she wants you there 24/7. You can bet your dad has to hear it from mom ALL the time when you don't do what she wants.
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Walk away. Your mother has weaponized her neediness and has made it into what I call 'Abusive Neediness'. She uses this to manipulate you (and probably others) into letting her be in control of your lives.

She is not in control of your life. YOU ARE.

Forgive me is I speak plainly and what I'm saying is for your own good.

Your husband is a very sick man. Shame on you for letting mommy's narcissism and guilt-tripping come before him. That stops today.

Too damn bad if your mother wants you with her instead. Boo-hoo. Let her pout and cry about it. Let her behave like a senior-brat or an elder-tyrant because she doesn't get her own way. Let her man sort her out. It's his job to, not yours.

Think about this. You moved your parents NEAR you. Not in WITH you. Is this because you're smart and knew how your mother would be and wanted to be able to close your own door?

Close it then. It's okay. Set some boundaries and if your mother is unwilling to live by them, start ignoring her. Don't go to her place and don't take her calls for a while.

Your husband and your life come before your mother's neediness.
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PeggySue - I didn't get them to move - my Dad was in the hospital and freaked out that my Mom was alone - that's when I rushed down to SAVE them. He told me we are selling the condo and moving by you.
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Anxietynacy Sep 4, 2024
Ahh I missed that part too. Thanks for clearing that up
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I'm sure a lot of your families are dramatic and dysfunctional - when you're raised in that environment, it becomes the norm. No family wants to admit it. My entire family (Italian) and my husband's (Irish) is dramatic - a constant battle. It could be over how to cook an Italian sauce that we've been cooking since birth. I'm being funny, but it's ridiculous!
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waytomisery Sep 4, 2024
It is ridiculous . Don’t put up with it .
Just cause they are family doesn’t mean you have to . I really hate that people think you have to put up with bad behavior because someone is family .

Stands to reason why I don’t see my narc sibs who learned from my narcissist mother .

Romeo .
Your mother is manipulative , passive aggressive, not just dramatic.
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PeggySue - I'm not stereotyping ethnicities - I could have said Greek - I also mentioned previously that some Italian families are not family oriented, they just pretend to be. I was just mentioning it to see if anyone with similar ethnic backgrounds can relate. I don't know of any other but ours, and that is how we are. There are Italian "grown" men who have their mommy do their laundry. Some of you know the term - Mammone (mama's boy) - There's nothing wrong with being a "close knit" family helping and caring - but as we're saying - it's the controlling aspect of it. I didn't mean to get off "topic" so please forgive me.
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PeggySue2020 Sep 4, 2024
Romeo, only thing I meant to say is that ethnicity is not an excuse. I myself have heard stories all over the ethnic map as to adult children being bombarded by their parents and chalking it up to ethnic drama that’s not true for many others in their ethnicity.

My dh’s favorite cousin passed away from tongue and throat cancer on Christmas Eve 2018. She had undergone surgery, chemo and rads. She was 45 and had been in remission for some months before it came roaring back. Her husband was present for that whole journey as versus offering his mom manicures and popsicles and dinners without the sick person and dog walking trips.

Your parents had 30 years after the age of 64 to enjoy their retirement with themselves. It is a nonzero possibility that you may not have three, and if it is, will you be happy that you spent that time on moms manicure and her insistence that you cook her fresh Italian dinners?
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SP - I did take a stand - I didn't see them for 4 months on purpose.
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sp196902 Sep 4, 2024
Right so is that why the same to live in VA because you were taking a stand and asserting your independence? Just something to think about.
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