Did anybody let their parent "suffer the consequences" of being stubborn?

Rovana: I hold no regrets. Did what I had to do.

My 83 year old dad just recently 'escaped' a rehab center that was supposed to help him after he had new stents put in. He was stubborn and waited too long to get them replaced. He is lucky to be alive.The place was very crowded and from the minute he was there he said it made him feel old. While he was there he got it in his mind that every one was against him and that they were keeping him against his will. He threatened to call the cops—yet they kept telling them he was only in rehab and could sign himself out. The reason they didn't want to release him is because he needed someone at home to care for him that could assist him medically. They were stalling. Now, my dad can barely walk across the room or lift anything. He needs help but has decided that he wants to die in his house. I still have a family of my own and have decided to give myself some space from him because he is so hard to deal with. Honestly, I expect to go visit him one day and find that he has passed on. I can't lift him or offer him medical assistance. He has made his choice and wants to stay where he is. I've made me choice and am trying to adjust to the fact he may not be around much longer so I try to remember the good times. The person he is now, I don't recognize. Hulacat13, said it best. I think too, letting go is a natural part of life.

As APS told me when my mom was making bad choices and fighting with me about getting help, going into AL, etc., unless the person is declared legally incompetent, they have a right to make their own decisions and choices, even if they are bad. APS actually "threatened" me and said that if I forced my mom to do anything against her will, they would step in and stop me. SOOO, that shed a whole new light on things for me. While I was incredibly angry, as I was so stressed and worried and spending so much time trying to do what was best for my mother, as many, many folks here have done, it made me stop and realize that, in fact, it IS that person's life and they DO have a right to live it the way they choose....just like we each have a right to live our lives, too....and SHOULD put ourselves first. If the person is so stubborn that they can't be talked to or reasoned with, then you absolutely should leave them alone and let them do what they want....as long as it isn't hurting someone else. All you can do is try to show them how much better things might be, but if they refuse to listen, don't kill yourself trying to change them. At this point you must realize they are NOT going to change....EVER! They have lived their life and done things their way up until now....why should things change now? Of course, if they are not competent, or are hurting someone else with their actions, that is a different story and may require legal action to make changes. But if they are taking responsibility for their choices and are at peace with them, then you should be too. Take responsibility for your own life and take care of yourself. Let them know that if and when they want help, you are there to help however you can when the time comes, but until then, try to be at peace and understand that you are not responsible for someone else's actions and choices.

I let my Dad suffer the consequences once. It wasn't as if I could actually have done otherwise.

he threw the pills he needed to take each evening back in my face. Telling me to shove them. He was in full on panic because he said those drugs were not proscribed by his doctor, but by some alien....the VA was taken over by aliens.

i wasn't going to even think I could fight that battle. This was at a time when his liver was failing too....no way a prescription for a sedative could be justified, any benefit could not outweigh the added damage. So.........

robinr: trust me, boundaries have to be set. Of course you don’t act like a gestapo agent, especially if some dementia is present. But you give them the framework within which decisions will be made. I learned the hard way - and watched a cousin suffer a major heart attack trying to do everything for her mother & stepdad - that you have to take care of yourself first. Otherwise you won’t have the resilience to care for another.

Yup. I do it all the time. I’m so fed up with my whole situation. I believe my situation is far more worse than your situation. My mom is 83, she has a forty five years old guy taking care of her but he is just using her for her money and home. He doesn’t work he deals drugs. Yes drugs. And he gives them to my mother so he can control her. He goes through everything and steals everything but moms to gullible to see it. He doesn’t clean at all the house is disgusting. It use to be a beautiful house. I had to remodel and clean my grandparents after him and his friend lived here. Then moved to moms. This has been within the last six years.. it’s a long story. I’ve gotten lawyers, police and APS involved and no one will do anything as she can live the way she wants to after her doctor and the hospital said she is incapacitated. She calls me to help but when I do go and help he finds one of his drug addict girlfriends to do it and then mom treats me like SH-t. I’ve done this so many times thinking every time she has figured out this guy is bad for her life. But no he can do no wrong. I thought I’d write to tell you you aren’t alone and there’s other people with worse situations. I just have to walk away or it’s going to kill me first. I get so stressed out. And trying to find someone that can help is a impossible task. I need a protective order against him. But can’t find or afford one. It’s ridiculous that APS won’t do anything mom sleeps in mice poop and hasn’t had a shower in over 25!years and I’m not joking. I’m in fear for her life but I can do nothing it’s her choice . It’s hard for people when they get up in age to let go of control. And my mom is very very controlling. She uses me. I had that place cleaned up three times just to have him return and destroy it again when I come around he starts taking care of my mom better so she doesn’t depend on me this is what he wants. But she has to learn the hard way. She only cares for herself. She could careless how I feel I think she in joys hurting me or she is just to controlled by him. She doesn’t want to give up her ability to do things for herself like your mom. But the choice she is making is putting her in harms way,,, it’s hard to see a family member get taken advantage of but what can we do . Nothing. Wait until they are bedridden or fall and break a hip and end up somewhere so people can take better care of them. I say live your life focus on you and your family because I believe our mothers won’t give up until something happens to them it’s sad but true .. I can’t wait for the day I can say I told you so. But I’ve done this many times just to have her go back to the way it was. The court system and APS need to change something they give elder adults way to much independents to make choices for themselves i believe because my mom’s situation is way out of hand. And how can they evaluate someone if they don’t even know them that’s what I don’t understand. It makes APS look lazy. But they say it’s very hard to go in front of a judge and take a persons rights away. They need to re look it. Im loosing everything because of it and my mom isn’t getting properly taken care of. They did an investigation on this guy and even told me that they would not have this guy taking care of someone but let alone I cannot do anything about it.
I know it’s hard thinking something has to happen first before anything can be done but as far as legality’s go our hands are tied. Alls we can do is pray nothing happens to our mothers. I’ve had to learn to let go and focus on my life. Like I said it’s tearing me and my husband up. And gets worse every time I go back. I feel for you I know exactly what you are going through. Good luck 🍀

My daughter-in-law's 92 year-old grandmother just was found nearly gone on the floor by her bed a few days ago, and she never woke up. She apparently had had a fall a day or two previously and didn't appear to have any serious injury, but she may have had a brain bleed or something similar. She had a history of falls and other health issues, but insisted on living alone and locked her house up tight every night. My DIL wound up jimmying a window to get in when she wasn't answering calls. Her family wasn't getting anywhere with her allowing an aide or a facility--

I have some very simple advice. First, do all you can to help the "sick" person. If you have truly done everything you could, YOU MUST THINK OF YOURSELF FIRST. If nothing works, let them suffer the consequences of what they are doing. Nothing is going to stop consequences and problems and if you allow them, YOU will be destroyed. Let them see what happens and start totally ignoring helping them in any way. It will either wake them up or make YOU see the necessity of removing them from your presence and putting them somewhere so YOU can have the life you deserve. No if's, and's or but's.

The problem lies in our parents NOT being declared incompetent but they really are. We have no actual legal power to enforce better decisions for their care unless they agree with us or if they suddenly do become incompetent through storke or other type of catastrophic illness. Make sure your mother has a Medical Power of Attorney or Durable POA document along with her will so you can step in when needed. I have a friend whose father resists any help at all...remaining in his two story home but not even able to climb steps. The two adult children are powerless to help because he has not been declared incompetent. Yet he is in a deep depression with debilitating arthritis. It is a situation which may have a tragic ending. I would sit down with your mother to say how worried you are....that maybe she will accept an aid, for your sake if not her own. Then you will need to tell yourself you did the best you could for her under the circumstances. If she has a friend or other relative who lives near her, perhaps they will agree to visit her regularly and give you a report. Speak to the assisted living facility and ask they they assess her to determine if she is safe living there. They do have the power to get her into the safest environment if they are unable to care for her increased needs. Good luck!

Not sure if anyone mentioned this, but if Mom is at the early stages of dementia, but still has capacity, you should get a Power of Attorney/Health Care proxy done as soon as possible.

My elderly mother has Obsessive Compulsive Hoarding Disorder....and I literally cannot do anything / force her to accept help because she still has "capacity" (despite being mentally ill).

While I couldn't get her to accept help now, when it might actually improve her quality of life, I was able to get her to agree to a POA and Health Care Proxy. That way, when something bad does happen, and it will, I have the paperwork to make decisions for her.

Once Mom's dementia advances, and she no longer has mental capacity, you will not be able to have her sign a POA, and if you do it may not be enforceable. So even though I know I am not discussing your immediate problem, it never hurts to plan ahead for when you CAN make the decision for her.

Good luck - it's so hard when they won't accept help. Especially when you are not close by. Just do what you know is right.

Yes! Dad went home alone (3 states away) and lasted 10 days. His 2 week hospital stay was enough for him to realize that he needed to be closer to family.

My late parents were the same way. Mom was the worse toward my dad. She thought we abandoned her at the nursing home. She wanted to go home. Mind you, she went to the NH because she broke arm, leg, and had pneumonia. She didn’t want therapy anymore because she thought she was heal.

Just remember that your mom is “not there” and you’re dealing with a person has dementia. You can’t change her mind.

My dad refused getting help, taking showers, and changing his clothes. It was very tiresome of asking him what to do. He used to yell at me, but never hurt me physically at all. I left them alone when they were combative with me.

At that time, I knew my mom and dad were “dead” long time before they passed away. I used to cry every night after I held it in front of them. I was extremely patent with them.

I'm so glad to get everyone's perspective.....after hearing your stories, one thing that's becoming clearer to me is: I will not neglect my health and my family to care for mom....(easier said than done) but aI know the boundaries now after all the discussions here.....thank you all sooooo much.

My mother was so argumentative and stubborn that she fought with me about everything, bathing, meds, on and on. I did trick her when she refused to go to the Dr. I called an ambulance and took her to an ER. She loved riding in the ambulance and they kept her for 3 hours and did lots of tests. I finally got a complete reading for her health. Another time I called an ambulance to take her to her own Dr. Adding a few more people into the mix cut into her stubborness. Now she's in assisted living and the CNA's are much better with her than I was.

Betsey P

Go ahead and line up the part time help she needs and you will find out that she will decide she likes it after all. Even the company they give her. My parents did not want anybody coming in and I got someone anyway and my Dad was especially glad we did after she had been there about a week or so. She did light housekeeping and helped my Mom with her meal because my Dad was older and having a difficult time. It will also give you peace of mind which is also valuable so it is a win for both of you. She will bark about it for a week or two until she bonds with one. Speaking as a daughter who had 2 stubborn parents. You have to take the reins as the decision maker.

Does any elder really want to lose their independence? No, is usually the response. This leaves the adult children in a quandary. My own late mother waited till the "virtual eleventh hour," which gave me no choice to move out of state to take care of her. That is a tough call for each adult child.

This is such a complicated and painful situation to be in. When my brothers and I tried to have a conversation with our mother about her care before dementia settled in too badly, she closed her ears to it. Her behavior was deteriorating, yet her doctor would not give a diagnosis of incompetency so my brother could not get POA. We dealt with our local Area Agency on Aging for help and while they sympathized with our plight, they wouldn't make the call either. Our mom was no longer safe behind the wheel of a car, yet she continued to drive until we hid her keys from her. Finally when our mother stopped paying her bills, we made an appointment for her to see a psychologist. How my brother got her to go is to his credit. However, the psychologist spent quite a bit of time with Mom and ultimately diagnosed her with dementia, behavioral and delusional disorders, all of which we already knew but needed a professional diagnosis. My brother was then able to get POA. After checking many assisted living places with memory care, we decided on a facility our mom was actually quite familiar with. My brother took her there to visit, but she thought she was there for a job interview. Mom is 96 years old and has been retired for many years. Finally my brother packed her into his car and took her there to stay. He then went back to her house to pack up the things she would need. This broke our hearts to have to do it this way. We really wanted her to have a say in all this, but it just wasn't to be. There was absolutely no cooperation from her at all. She didn't want to stay, but going back home was no longer an option. We had hoped we could get her to agree to have in-home help come in daily so that she could stay in her home, but she refused help of any kind. I would arrange to have people from her church to come in regularly to check on her, and sometimes she wouldn't even open the door for them. Her house was in shambles and she wouldn't allow me to hire a cleaning lady for her. Fortunately friends and family understood what we were dealing with and supported our decision. This was all the more difficult because we live far from our mom and have to do a lot long distance. Mom is now in a safe place and receiving good care which is a relief to us. They have had to medicate her due to her angry outbursts and refusal to cooperate, but it seems things are under control now. I don't know what the best answer is for you, but I can encourage you to just do what you think is right and don't beat yourself up for it afterwards. These decisions are not easy to make. I wish you well.

I think the elderly find it hard to be dependent on aides and their kids.
Resistance is often their new norm. They cling to a little pride.

I would get the aide and see how it goes. Trial and error, until it fits.
We did that with my dad, who became difficult when he developed dementia.

Just be gentle. For us it worked best.

Yes, to some extent. My mom has always been extremely stubborn and digs her heals in at each life change. Unless it's a threat to safety or her account will be overdrawn, I'm picking my battles one at a time. I've been lucky that I've pushed and worked really hard for each change - gaining access to her accounts, filing 5 years of tax returns at once, obtaining senior help and moving my parents to a senior living apartment - but in the end it's worked out and my mom at least seems to be appreciative. We still yell nearly every time we talk, but I'm working to get her on a good path, and she knows I'm looking out for her best interests. Still a few hurdles to go, and that's not accounting for worsening dementia. Stick with it - you'll feel better about yourself in the long run if do your best to protect her, while looking out for yourself.

Yes. Oh. yes---I have done this. My mother is so stubborn, controlling, defiant & argumentative that I've gotten to the point where I just can't argue with her all the time, about every single thing. My mother won't ever just agree with anything I say--she will fight it every step of the way, even if I am saying it for her own health & safety. My mother is 90 years old and has always been this way--stubborn, controlling, argumentative, defiant. If something is a threat to her health & safety, I simply won't let it go. But, other things that are not so important I don't get into a fight with her about because I refuse to let her destroy my own mental health---I'm not going to have a heart attack from stress that she is the sole cause of. So, if she does something because she doesn't want to listen to me, she has to suffer the consequences of it--and then I will not jump to deal with consequences she caused due to her own stubbornness & inability to let someone else take control of the situation.

The aide service I hired said that sometimes the person will not accept the aid but that they have ways of dealing with it. Generally they put the aid in and after a while the person starts to warm to the idea. Prior to a dementia diagnosis, I did let the consequences of actions play out. She was buying QVC stuff and then returning it. Or rather expected me to go to the post office with multiple packages every week. I refused. I told her she can go. She tried lots of ways to get me to do it. She spent more energy trying to get me to do it than it would have taken to do it herself. Having to return them herself discouraged her from buying stuff that she was only going to return. Two problems solved at once. It's hard since the person is an adult who is responsible for themselves on the one hand. On the other hand, they have dementia and can't necessarily make good decisions.

I had my mom with dementia for 10 years. We loved on her as much as my husband and I could. Yet, when she got something in her mind that was dead wrong for her, such as not seeing a doctor, we had to let it ride. I tried and putting her in the car to see a doctor or dentist would be a screaming match and at her over 90 age, that could of caused her heart to stop too. Fighting with the doctors and dentist caused my heart to skip too. I finally just let her be. She lived till 98 and passed in July. I was so stressed that I had problems too, my hair started falling out and I had sleeping problems. Took months after her death and my wonderful husband being there every step of the way, to help me recover.

Thank you for this question. Can we as children compel our parents to get help when they clearly object?

My mom (83) moved here from out of state three years ago. I am her only living child (64) My husband (68)has CHF and is a diabetic, with daily health issues. He was primary caregiver for his ALZ mom who passed away 3 years ago.

My mom: Early dementia with all the poor decision making it brings, keeps us embroiled in difficult relationship with her. We have experienced first hand the care and costs these diseases require.

She has fallen twice in four months requiring surgeries and partial hip replacement. We have been there every step. She’s very independent and resents any advice (bossing her). After first fall rehab recommended AL, she went for one month. Moved back to her home had a helper coming in 2-3 hours a day. She “fired” me as we were moving her boxes in over medication management. In 19 days she fell and broke her hip. No one was there, but her helper had just left her home, so she was thankfully close. This fall was very serious and required a hip replacement. Rehab would not discharge back to her home alone and we couldn’t afford 24/7 care.
Now, in AL one month (second time) and is again ready to go home.
It is her right to suffer the consequences of her decisions, do I just let go? This is not how I wanted to spend her last years.

This post is to Infinity, i just wanted to reply about "your mom staying up for 48 hrs, and won't stay in her bed".

Did your mom have problems with sleeping before the dementia or after? Have you tried Melatonin 1mg? If not, talk to her Dr about this.

Now, this part will sound crazy I am just giving you heads up! Have you thought maybe your mom is scared of her bed? She is not actually scared of the bed itself; she is scared of what the bed stands for--sleep!

I have had insomnia my whole life and thoughout the years I have found myself refusing to go to bed because I feel I won't sleep so why bother. Therefore, I will lay on the couch and full a sleep, why?Because there is no presure for me to full a sleep.

Now, I can't say this will help your mom because of her dementia. All I do know is there is an underlying cause! This is just to give you some insight and food for thought.

I hope this helps.
Good Luck

You might consider becoming her guardian/conservator or POA and apply for these green card and financial and medical decisions in her behalf. Dementia is unkind.

This disease is brutal! And exhausts me as I am her at home caregiver. My mom won't sleep. Period. Terrible. So I told her I would quit putting her to bed because she won't stay in bed with her cpap and oxygen on. At least when she is up walking around her nasal cannula is on. She stayed awake for over 48 hours! Finally crying from exhaustion she slept in her recliner. She still refuses her bed. But my point is she is suffering from her stubborn behavior. It is heartbreaking to watch.

Everyone talked out of both sides of their mouth about my mother’s so-called independence. And yes, I did allow my mother to “suffer the consequences” of being stubborn. It did not end well. But it wasn’t going to end well anyway.

YES! But she was in an AL facility; she wasn’t utterly without help. I told her she could no longer fire hired folk without taking the consequences. You must set boundaries!

wren, great thread and sorry about your stress. To go on your lead-in, gosh I have the same big floating question. There are many litttle things I don’t do or stopped because she’s so resistant. Went through the ‘please let an aide come,’ her refusal, then acceptance, then rejecting them. Even littler things than that.. She burns pots of water on the stove all the time so I got her an electric kettle - no, we just can’t figure out flipping a switch then coming back to the hot water. It’s something outlandish because I introduced it. The response above about waiting for each item until they scare themselves or feel vulnerable, I’m afraid, is the answer for a lot of it.
I appreciate the response about writing to her friends, etc. ahead of time, but I think I’d wait till there in person. And within reason, have the conversations with your mom present. Like it’s a regular theme similar to whether she needs a new hairdresser.
Stubborn is the word! I think we’re the product of a different era than theirs, gosh they went through so much that we’ll never understand. I know it’s a generalization, but there was less talk of helping for weakness or vulnerability. You had to look and act tough as nails, don’t complain, don’t ask.
Good luck, wren. 💐

Can you possibly tell her the "aid" is a guide that you have hired to make her visit more pleasurable. The "guide" can take her to the store, for a walk in the park, go for tea any number of things. If Mom is worried about money that you have spent to hire the aid another "therapeutic lie" might be this is a student that has to have X number of hours in volunteering and by accepting the help your mom will be enabling this person to continue their education.

You don't want to wait for a catastrophe you want to prevent them for as long as possible. (Just know one will happen it is just a matter of when..and we want to delay the when)

If she will not accept the help you should tell her that she will not be able to visit again as you are concerned about her safety and you can not spend your time worrying about her.

No one wants to admit they need help, no one wants to admit they are loosing their independence, and it mist be frightening to know you are loosing bits of your mind. Give Mom a hug and tell her you are doing this because you love her and want to keep her safe and happy and you hope your children do the same for you one day. (and remember those words because it will happen)