Are you sure you want to exit? Your progress will be lost.
Who are you caring for?
Which best describes their mobility?
How well are they maintaining their hygiene?
How are they managing their medications?
Does their living environment pose any safety concerns?
Fall risks, spoiled food, or other threats to wellbeing
Are they experiencing any memory loss?
Which best describes your loved one's social life?
Acknowledgment of Disclosures and Authorization
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington. Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services. APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid. We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour. APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment. You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints. Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights. APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.I agree that: A.I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information"). B.APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink. C.APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site. D.If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records. E.This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year. F.You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
✔
I acknowledge and authorize
✔
I consent to the collection of my consumer health data.*
✔
I consent to the sharing of my consumer health data with qualified home care agencies.*
*If I am consenting on behalf of someone else, I have the proper authorization to do so. By clicking Get My Results, you agree to our Privacy Policy. You also consent to receive calls and texts, which may be autodialed, from us and our customer communities. Your consent is not a condition to using our service. Please visit our Terms of Use. for information about our privacy practices.
Mostly Independent
Your loved one may not require home care or assisted living services at this time. However, continue to monitor their condition for changes and consider occasional in-home care services for help as needed.
Remember, this assessment is not a substitute for professional advice.
Share a few details and we will match you to trusted home care in your area:
Why are they not safe? You could be charged with abuse if you continue to isolate mom. Would her doctor back you up in restricting others from taking her out? Always remember this is about what is best for mom.
Pay, has your mom had a bad experience when being taken out of her familiar surroundings? There aren’t many details in your post. Why do you feel these outings might not be a good idea? Does Mom have dementia? Has she had a difficult time recovering from these outings? Is she in a care facility or living with you? And finally, what gave you the idea that the outings are not safe?
I ask because I had a bad experience when bringing my own mom out of her care facility. When we would be out of town on Thanksgiving one year, I asked a mutual friend of my mother’s and mine if she would have my mom to her house that day so Mom wouldn’t be alone. Mom was so out of her element and upset that she wound up in the ER two days later with chest pains. I never brought her out again.
What sorts of outings are your family taking her on that could be unsafe? Does Mom have physical or mental limitations that they are disregarding? Has Mom had “meltdowns” once she returns?
Gladimhere is right, you could be investigated if your family complains that you are refusing them access to Mom. We’ve had several posts about that. But if you are truly trying to keep Mom safe, that’s another story. Have you voiced your concerns to your family? Was there an occasion where Mom may or could have been injured because she wasn’t supervised by them? If so, share your side of the story with the Ombudsman.
As healthcare POA you can make these kinds of decisions for Mom IF she cannot make them for herself. Are you making other healthcare decisions for Mom?
Is she competent to make decisions for herself? Does she want to go? Then she gets to go.
Like other posters, I'd like to hear where Mom is living, and what kind of outings you deem unsafe.
No matter what the circumstances, the best outcome would be for family members to meet and discuss what is in the best interests of Mom. You can explain your reasons for your decisions. Perhaps there can be compromises. OK, these kinds of outings are perfectly OK, but these others are off-limits.
Since an ombudsman has been involved I take it there is some adversity in family relationships. Is there any chance of a family meeting smoothing things over? Would having a social worker or clergy person or some objective outsider at such a meeting help?
My mom has dementia with lewy bodies she is in a locked memory care unit. When we discussed her care with the ombudsman it was decided that the family was allowed to take her out of the facility on short trips with in a 15 mile radius. If she was to go longer or further than 15 miles they wereto ask the facility and i if she could go. She just was realized from the hospital a week ago. [She had been in er 5 times since March 31] She was hospitalized for passing out and terrible out bursts. She has issues with orthostatic blood pressure. She has a very difficult time when she comes back from outings. She thinks she should go home staff has difficult time redirecting her. She was found outside of facility 3 to mb esafter outings.
My mom has dementia with lewy bodies she is in a locked memory care unit. When we discussed her care with the ombudsman it was decided that the family was allowed to take her out of the facility on short trips with in a 15 mile radius. If she was to go longer or further than 15 miles they wereto ask the facility and i if she could go. She just was realized from the hospital a week ago. [She had been in er 5 times since March 31] She was hospitalized for passing out and terrible out bursts. She has issues with orthostatic blood pressure. She has a very difficult time when she comes back from outings. She thinks she should go home staff has difficult time redirecting her. She was found outside of facility after outings. My siblings want to take her to camper that is on a lake in the woods. I understand she would enjoy it but I di not trust my siblings to watch her for safety reasons. The nearest ambulance is 20 miles away. I understand they want to spend time with her I just don't think this is safe. Each time we have met with the ombudsman I have been told by them that I am doing what is best for my Mom.
Taking your elderly mom out camping is probably not a good idea in my opinion. Especially if it will disorient her when she comes back. Suggest to your family that they take her somewhere else. Somewhere more safe and public.
PAY29, I also vote "NO" to the camping trip. Not a good idea as you already realize. I have been a camper for many years, and there are just too many things that can happen.
If one has a camper with no bathroom facility on the camper, then Mom would need to use the camp ground restrooms. Easy to get disoriented as to where the camper might be. One has to be very careful when walking, lot of things for anyone who isn't paying attention to trip over. And heaven forbid, if Mom decides to go out for a walk on her own.
How far away is the nearest hospital? Add that time to the 20 minutes it takes for the ambulance to get to the camp ground. Time for the relatives to decided on plan B as to another idea to spent time with Mom.
If I understand correctly, the ombudsman has told your family members that you are doing what is best for your Mom.
I can understand the desire to take your Mom to a camper on a lake in the woods especially if she enjoyed camping in the past. If your Mom enjoyed camping, then it is most likely that your family members are trying to relive the past and the Mom that they knew before she got dementia. Unfortunately, this is the PRESENT and your Mom is NOT physically nor mentally stable enough to go to a camper in the woods.
Five visits to ER Dept in 1 1/2 months!! Something is definitely not right!
Talk with your family members again and tell them that your Mom CANNOT go to the lake! Do they realize that they will be 100% responsible for their Mom's physical health & wellbeing? Do they realize that she could DROWN in the lake (in 4 inches of water if she is lying down) if she has an orthostatic blood pressure &/or fainting episode while standing on the lake shore and there is no one watching her and no one to pull her out of the lake immediately? It is just May and the water is still quite cold and hypothermia can set in within 5-10 minutes or less.
Maybe suggest a picnic outside in the locked courtyard (if the facility has one) or a local park. Remind your family that whatever activity they do with your Mom, that your Mom's safety MUST come first, NOT reliving of past events that resulted in wonderful memories. Maybe suggest that your family members bring photo albums to the facility and review the past camping trips that they have been on with your Mom.
I am sorry that your family members are in such denial. I hope that everything works out well for your Mom and that your family members are able to find NEW ways to spend quality time with her.
Let them take her out. They will soon find out that its not easy caring for a Dementia patient. Give them a list of things to look out for. If she ends up in the hospital, let them sit with her.
JoAnn29 she was in the assisted living part of facility at that time but she was wearing the device that alarms I think it was called a wander guard. She has been in the locked unit for 2 months
What are the policies of the locked unit regarding a resident leaving the unit or the facility? Since your Mom was transferred to the locked unit just 2 months ago, is it possible that your family members do not realize how much your Mom's health has deteriorated in the past 2 months? When did you and they last meet with the ombudsman? Before or after your mom was transferred to the locked unit?
DeeAnna we meet with them the day she moved in. The facility says it is up to the Health Care POA the problem is if I say no they family members will go to facility director and ombudsmen saying I am doing something wrong again kind of a vicious cycle. I have no problem with the spending time or taking her on outings, I am even willing to give up my time with her for them. It just has to be safe
I'm adding my 2 pesos here. I've taken your sentences and have added to them.
"She just was realized from the hospital a week ago. [She had been in ER 5 times since March 31]" OBVIOUSLY (to everyone but your family) your mom is not well. Does it make sense to take her out in the woods when she's ill? Given the information you stated, you can calculate her next ER visit (43 days divided by 5 trips to ER=8.6 days ......the next ER trip/admission is the night of May 14th. This is not advanced calculus. Can they do math?
" She was hospitalized for passing out"... Passing out in the woods would not be a good thing. Calling "The nearest ambulance is 20 miles away." would be a long wait while she remains passed out. Like was said above, then how long is the ride to the hospital? Then a new hospital and more confusion.
"...and terrible outbursts." She's not mentally stable or emotionally well managed. Do they really want to be awakened at 3 am by blood curdling screams because she's hallucinating or scared? Would they be able to calm her with what they have available in the woods?
"She has issues with orthostatic blood pressure." So it would be just great (tongue in cheek), while hiking down hill, sitting to rest, she gets up, has a drop in BP to the point of passing out and falling down the hill? See scenario above.
"She has a very difficult time when she comes back from outings. She thinks she should go home, staff has difficult time redirecting her." This is completely normal when Alzheimer's patients are taken out of their normal setting. Is it really FAIR to your mom to pack her off camping so your FAMILY can feel good, then have mom so wacked out for the next few days that she can't be reoriented? Well, THEY don't have to worry about that. That's the (underpaid) job of the aides at the facility. And it's your MOM who pays the price and has to feel bad.
"She was found outside of facility after outings." THAT should NEVER happen. Failure of staff and security to provide for her safety. Ask about an ankle bracelet alarm. Or tell admin. to have someone manning cameras at ALL times. Confusion again due to the confusion from being taken from familiar surroundings.
Your family need to educate themselves about dementia/Alzheimer's. They are dangerously ignorant! And it's your mother's safety that HAS to be first and foremost.
Be a hard a** and refuse to let her go out camping. No judge in the world would even try this case in his court. A sick, elderly, demented woman out camping does not make sense. I'm with you. You are saving your mother from her uninformed family (who probably have good intentions but little else.)
A picnic in the local park is a great idea. Go along and observe how they handle her. If not correctly, then put your foot down for good.
Is the Ombudsmen that you have met with in the past connected with your state's Department of Health and Human Services or the Office on Aging OR are these people staff members (from Social Services Department) at the facility? Either way, you need to contact the SAME PERSONS that you have worked with in the past and let them know that your family members want to take your Mom camping for ______ days &/or nights and why you do NOT want your Mom to go camping.
If your Mom stays overnight outside the facility, will that affect who pays for your Mom's bill? I know that Medicare has guidelines regarding overnight stays, but I am not sure about Medicaid or Long Term Care Insurance. Who is paying for your Mom's stay at the facility..is she private pay? Could your Mom lose her bed if she is gone from the facility for longer than 24 hours (& is NOT in the hospital)? Is there a separate charge to reserve her room while she is "out camping" with family members? [Just some thoughts.]
Campers are hard enough for someone w/o dementia to navigate; they're small, close, with little room for maneuvering. The cramped space could aggravate her mood, and seriously disorient her.
Agree, 100% camping is not appropriate. Your family members need an education in dementia. What other sorts of outings have they suggested or wanted to take mom on? Picnic in a nearby park would be a great compromise.
You have authority and responsibility to make decisions in your mother's best interest. You've done that. Enforce your decision.
Family complains that you won't let them take her in a camper? Let them complain. You still have the authority and responsibility to make decisions in your mother's best interest. Don't let apparently ignorant family members deter you from you responsibility.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
I ask because I had a bad experience when bringing my own mom out of her care facility. When we would be out of town on Thanksgiving one year, I asked a mutual friend of my mother’s and mine if she would have my mom to her house that day so Mom wouldn’t be alone. Mom was so out of her element and upset that she wound up in the ER two days later with chest pains. I never brought her out again.
What sorts of outings are your family taking her on that could be unsafe? Does Mom have physical or mental limitations that they are disregarding? Has Mom had “meltdowns” once she returns?
Gladimhere is right, you could be investigated if your family complains that you are refusing them access to Mom. We’ve had several posts about that. But if you are truly trying to keep Mom safe, that’s another story. Have you voiced your concerns to your family? Was there an occasion where Mom may or could have been injured because she wasn’t supervised by them? If so, share your side of the story with the Ombudsman.
Is she competent to make decisions for herself? Does she want to go? Then she gets to go.
Like other posters, I'd like to hear where Mom is living, and what kind of outings you deem unsafe.
No matter what the circumstances, the best outcome would be for family members to meet and discuss what is in the best interests of Mom. You can explain your reasons for your decisions. Perhaps there can be compromises. OK, these kinds of outings are perfectly OK, but these others are off-limits.
Since an ombudsman has been involved I take it there is some adversity in family relationships. Is there any chance of a family meeting smoothing things over? Would having a social worker or clergy person or some objective outsider at such a meeting help?
If one has a camper with no bathroom facility on the camper, then Mom would need to use the camp ground restrooms. Easy to get disoriented as to where the camper might be. One has to be very careful when walking, lot of things for anyone who isn't paying attention to trip over. And heaven forbid, if Mom decides to go out for a walk on her own.
How far away is the nearest hospital? Add that time to the 20 minutes it takes for the ambulance to get to the camp ground. Time for the relatives to decided on plan B as to another idea to spent time with Mom.
I can understand the desire to take your Mom to a camper on a lake in the woods especially if she enjoyed camping in the past. If your Mom enjoyed camping, then it is most likely that your family members are trying to relive the past and the Mom that they knew before she got dementia. Unfortunately, this is the PRESENT and your Mom is NOT physically nor mentally stable enough to go to a camper in the woods.
Five visits to ER Dept in 1 1/2 months!! Something is definitely not right!
Talk with your family members again and tell them that your Mom CANNOT go to the lake! Do they realize that they will be 100% responsible for their Mom's physical health & wellbeing? Do they realize that she could DROWN in the lake (in 4 inches of water if she is lying down) if she has an orthostatic blood pressure &/or fainting episode while standing on the lake shore and there is no one watching her and no one to pull her out of the lake immediately? It is just May and the water is still quite cold and hypothermia can set in within 5-10 minutes or less.
Maybe suggest a picnic outside in the locked courtyard (if the facility has one) or a local park. Remind your family that whatever activity they do with your Mom, that your Mom's safety MUST come first, NOT reliving of past events that resulted in wonderful memories. Maybe suggest that your family members bring photo albums to the facility and review the past camping trips that they have been on with your Mom.
I am sorry that your family members are in such denial. I hope that everything works out well for your Mom and that your family members are able to find NEW ways to spend quality time with her.
Let them take her out. They will soon find out that its not easy caring for a Dementia patient. Give them a list of things to look out for. If she ends up in the hospital, let them sit with her.
"She just was realized from the hospital a week ago. [She had been in ER 5 times since March 31]"
OBVIOUSLY (to everyone but your family) your mom is not well. Does it make sense to take her out in the woods when she's ill?
Given the information you stated, you can calculate her next ER visit (43 days divided by 5 trips to ER=8.6 days ......the next ER trip/admission is the night of May 14th. This is not advanced calculus. Can they do math?
" She was hospitalized for passing out"...
Passing out in the woods would not be a good thing. Calling "The nearest ambulance is 20 miles away." would be a long wait while she remains passed out. Like was said above, then how long is the ride to the hospital? Then a new hospital and more confusion.
"...and terrible outbursts."
She's not mentally stable or emotionally well managed. Do they really want to be awakened at 3 am by blood curdling screams because she's hallucinating or scared? Would they be able to calm her with what they have available in the woods?
"She has issues with orthostatic blood pressure."
So it would be just great (tongue in cheek), while hiking down hill, sitting to rest, she gets up, has a drop in BP to the point of passing out and falling down the hill? See scenario above.
"She has a very difficult time when she comes back from outings. She thinks she should go home, staff has difficult time redirecting her."
This is completely normal when Alzheimer's patients are taken out of their normal setting. Is it really FAIR to your mom to pack her off camping so your FAMILY can feel good, then have mom so wacked out for the next few days that she can't be reoriented?
Well, THEY don't have to worry about that. That's the (underpaid) job of the aides at the facility. And it's your MOM who pays the price and has to feel bad.
"She was found outside of facility after outings."
THAT should NEVER happen. Failure of staff and security to provide for her safety. Ask about an ankle bracelet alarm. Or tell admin. to have someone manning cameras at ALL times.
Confusion again due to the confusion from being taken from familiar surroundings.
Your family need to educate themselves about dementia/Alzheimer's. They are dangerously ignorant! And it's your mother's safety that HAS to be first and foremost.
Be a hard a** and refuse to let her go out camping. No judge in the world would even try this case in his court. A sick, elderly, demented woman out camping does not make sense. I'm with you. You are saving your mother from her uninformed family (who probably have good intentions but little else.)
A picnic in the local park is a great idea. Go along and observe how they handle her. If not correctly, then put your foot down for good.
If your Mom stays overnight outside the facility, will that affect who pays for your Mom's bill? I know that Medicare has guidelines regarding overnight stays, but I am not sure about Medicaid or Long Term Care Insurance. Who is paying for your Mom's stay at the facility..is she private pay? Could your Mom lose her bed if she is gone from the facility for longer than 24 hours (& is NOT in the hospital)? Is there a separate charge to reserve her room while she is "out camping" with family members? [Just some thoughts.]
Family complains that you won't let them take her in a camper? Let them complain. You still have the authority and responsibility to make decisions in your mother's best interest. Don't let apparently ignorant family members deter you from you responsibility.