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Do you really want to start a confrontation with dad over mom's care? He had been caring for her and it was hard for him to make the decision. He was the one providing care and it may appear it was easy to have mom admitted.
He is still caring for mom on a different level and decided he needed professional help. He couldn't do it any longer.
How long ago was this? Do you visit mom often? Talk with her on the phone? Is mom trying to manipulate you? Or guilt you?
The best thing you can do is be supportive of your dad, he needs you. Dad cannot just sign mom into a nursing home. There has to be a doctor's order. Evidently the doc thinks this is best for mom and dad.
Very VERY FEW AL or SNF residents WANT to be cared for in residential settings, but often, placement is needed to provide the safest and most peaceful way of managing complex health concerns.
As you realize, Parkinson’s Disease is a complex and often difficult to manage within day to day care.
Whether she wants to be cared for in her present situation or not, skilled nursing care, and the therapies needed to maintain her health, may be best provided in a residential setting.
If you and your father can discuss her situation objectively and peacefully, you may find that being part of her team to be easier to achieve.
Sometimes a “good” resolution to a care issue isn’t available, so to achieve the best possible choices from less than perfect ones, allowances need to be made from all loved ones involved.
If you and Dad are talking, can you see if a little team building might be a good thing for all of you?
Your father should now manage the future for your Mother. I agree with other posters that this is not the ideal, but it is likely the best that things can be given what things are. BarbBrooklyn has the right questions for your to think about. Concentrate for now on giving Mom some respite from her current place when and if Covid-19 gives us an opportunity to resume real life. Do not become divisive in what is likely already a difficult and heartbreaking decision for your Dad. Do not let your Mom divide you from what should be a family decision. My bro and I used to tease about complaining being the first imperative for all in his Assisted Living on any given day. Keep conversations that involve only complaints and unhappiness to a minimum and tell your Mom you will call again later when she is feeling a bit better. Sorry that not everything can be fixed. Some things must be accepted with as much equanimity as can be mustered.
Your father had a reason for placing her. Why are you in charge? There are some family dynamics here that you haven’t told us. Regardless, most all elders complain about being in the NH especially at the beginning.
Of course mom doesn't want to be there--but likely, dad has become completely worn out caring for mom 24/7---and most Parkinson patients do eventually end up requiring far more care than they can receive from a spouse alone.
If you sign mom out (and my best guess is she cannot be signed out by you) are you prepared to do the 24/7 CG that is going to be required?
I was the CG for a lovely woman with Parkinson's and we worked mightily to keep her home as long as possible. The kids had made that 'promise' to dad and it tore them up to have to move her to a SNF. But she did end up in one and actually, absolutely LOVED it. She got fussed a LOT, visits and activities which I simply could not do for her.
Give mom time to acclimate. Trying to bring her home is going to result in more work than you can possibly imagine. You have a kind heart, but FT CG requires a lot more than that.
So I am assuming that your mother is not a competent adult who is entitled to make decisions for herself. If she is not competent than the question is Who has the power of health care attorney? Without a written document giving you authority most states give that authority by law to the spouse. You should check your state laws. If your mother is incompetent and your dad has power of attorney, checking her out without permission might be considered kidnapping in some states or even elder abuse. You might want to seek some legal advice.
But even if you can do it. You really need to be sure that it is your and your mother's best interest
Before you do anything, You and your mom should let your Father know that she wants to leave and see what can be worked out. Maybe your Dad just feels overwhelmed and needs some help with your mom. See if he can afford a Caregiver to come by for 2-4 hrs a day.
Your mom can check herself out if your mom tells them she wants to leave and if she can't sign herself out, she can let them know she us giving you permission to do so. You will need to be taking her to your home as your Dad doesn't feel able to care for her and will just take her back.
Bev, you’re not so great...sorry... LOL 😂 She is a Parkinson’s patient. They need 24/7 care. 2-4 hours a day is a joke. She needs to stay in nursing home facility.
Why would you want to? Your father has the legal rights over care for your mother unless you have a POA. He presumably has done what has been advised as being in your mother's best interests. It would be unusual for a child to decide to cause issues with their relationship with a parent, or to have reason to do so. Unless you live with them full time, I don't see how you can be in a position to decide you know better than your father what is best for your Mum. It sounds as though you are struggling to think your mother needs this care, but we cannot say what the problems between you are your parents are or why you think you want to take your mother out of care.
Dementia and Parkinson's go hand in hand. Is Mom competent to make her own decisions. Because Dad could not have placed her if she didn't want to go. I would hope that Dad has both financial and medical POA. Need both to place her and a doctor saying she needed 24/7 care. Its hard caring for an adult.
I find that when people aren't personally involved and complain about how someone else has handled a decision, they don't have all the facts. They aren't there 24/7. So if you are not willing or can't take care of Mom 24/7 then you need to be supportive of Dads decision. And don't encourage Mom wanting to go home. Help her adjust to the situation she is in.
Depends on mom's mental competence. If mom is not mentally competent and dad has POAs or is considered next of kin (and he is in most states), then the answer is NO. If mom is mentally competent and dad is unable to care for her at home, I suggest you have a care meeting with facility social worker and dad to discuss your mom's care needs. You may find that after this meeting your mom is in the best place for her care... or they will be in agreement to let you care for her in your home.
You don’t want to start WWII. There is a reason that she has been put there and it was signed off on by a doctor I am sure and those at the nursing facility. You may not understand what you are getting yourself into either. There are people so worn out that come to this site needing support because they are burned out and getting sick themselves trying to attend a person who obviously doesn’t have her faculties or your Dad would not have been able to admit her in the first place. We rarely see somebody trying to outdo a parent to take another parent out of skilled care. If Dad was just trying to get her out of the house and she had her faculties, she would have bucked him at the beginning. Dad has the right to do what he did unless he too has a mental deficiency. Just talk to her on the phone and go see her when they allow it after this virus is over. It is an emotional time for families with someone in a facility at this time. Hang in there a few more months.
My first question is this - if she has Parkinson's, do you have any idea in the world how difficult it would be to care for her? It would be horrible and your best bet is to leave her in a nursing home. Do YOU want to give up your life and whatever to do this knowing the impact it will have on you and your father? Don't do it. He was right in putting her there.
It will take time for your Mother to adjust & you to gain trust in her new caregivers. Give it a chance.
PD is progressive & causes many falls among many other problems. I am sorry your Mother has it. The reality is she will need more & more supervision & hands-on care as it progresses.
She will have a team of caregivers each shift & more opportunity to socialise in a care home than in a private home, being left with one caregiver while you work or just yourself.
Help her adjust to her new accommodation, let the caregivers do their job & add joy to her life instead.
Imho, even though she is only 74 years old, Parkinson's is a debilitating disease. You may not want to sign her out. Can you do a virtual visit? Prayers sent.
Group living is Not safe in the age of covd. These are hotspots for infection of various types. They are usually understaffed even before covd and Especially Now as people do not want to risk debilitation/death quite often for low pay. There is Still a ppe shortage in many parts of the country and shortcuts insafetyandhealth protocols are rampant.
Botox and other treatments have been verified as helpful in Parkinson"s. Strongly suggest you and Dad read the medical journals relevant toyourvarious situations S this will educate both of you as to best practices worldwide. U.S. Dr.s quite often are closedminded and Not up to date onnew protocols,treatments,cautions,etc. As they are overworked and often burned out!! Make sure Mom has aVERY explicit,detailed power of attorney document filled. Out and notarized properly as well as a medical directive and will. Familiarize yourself online regarding theselegal documents and common pitfalls or challenges. Also educate yourself on the legal guardianship process in your Mom"s state as you may need tobecome guardian and crisis time is Not the time to figure out the various issues and complications. If your mom is intellectually competent in a legal context,and she wants out you can get her released. The question is,is your dad legal medical advocate,p.o.a.,or legal guardian? There are free and reduced cost legal services in wach state. Look online or go to library. Often,the services operate out of the courthouse. Contact American Bar Association for help,also. Good Luck!
I have many questions....was your dad the primary care giver before signing her into the nursing home? If you have only been "visiting" and not living it, you may not be fully aware of what 24 hr care of someone with Parkinson's is like. It can be all consuming and exhausting and many times the care giver passes before the person being cared for. Yes, during covid, having a loved one in a facility is scary and not having access to them is maddening, but even if you do have the authority to sign her out, im not sure that you should.
This had to be a very difficult and heart breaking decision for your Dad to make - please support him. He is going thru as much as she is. Caring for someone with this condition is draining, and probably brought him to exhaustion. Her health will only worsen, and a nursing home is more trained to help her. She will get better care because of this. Doctor's say to give a person 3-4 months to adjust to assisted living or a nursing home.
Who has the POA? IF you sign her out, are YOU willing to be the 100% caregiver in your home? No one going into a NH at first wants to be there, but they are equipped to take care of her and apparently your father felt he could not give her the type of care needed and maybe it was too hard on him physically to handle. Now he can visit and be her loving hubby again instead of a tired caregiver. it is hard to have someone sent into a NH especially if they have been together for a long time. my parents were married for 71 years and my father had to go into a NH due to dementia. my mother would visit several times a week and gradually weaned down to 2 times a week (he was 90 when he went in ) and just recently passed, they would have been married 76 years this year. but mom knew that she couldn't handle him and he also wanted to come home at first, but he finally grew into the routine and was fine. give your mother some time, unless you have POA not much you can do and then you should be ready to be the 100% caregiver. wishing you all luck.
As a general rule of thumb the spouse has the upper hand of where their spouse lives. While you could possibly remove her I think that you would have to go for guardianship. If your dad wanted to be a bit difficult he could report you for kidnapping. The reason why I said this is my husband was in charge of his mother and was the DPOA of her for medical and financial she needed to be placed in a nursing home for care and one of his brothers tried to remove her because she didn't want to be there and wanted to go home. Anyhow, the facility turned him in for kidnapping as he took her out and was not thinking in the best interest of his mother in the situation she was in. Caring for someone with Parkinson's 24/7 is very challenging mentally and physically, I do not recommend you taking mom out almost ALL people don't want to be in anyplace other than what they know is home.
Of course she wants to leave, I would say 99.9% of the people placed in a Memory Care or Nursing Home would say they want to leave. Your father makes the decisions for his wife. If you wanted to over ride those decisions you would have to go to court and seek Guardianship. I doubt any court would grant it. If you are on the list to visit and take her out you can but you must return her. And knowing that there is a potential that you wouldn't I would not be surprised if your dad made your visits "restricted" so you would not be permitted to take her out. There may be aspects of your mother's illness that you are unaware of. Example..often with Parkinson's is LBD or Lewy Body Dementia this often presents it self with anger or violence and it is possible that your dad also placed mom for HIS protection as well as hers. She is getting the care she needs where she is.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
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I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
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APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
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APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
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If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
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This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
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You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
How is the NH being paid? (private pay? Medicaid?)
Were you involved in mom's care when she was at home with dad? Have you ever had full charge of her for 24 hours?
Did mom sign herself into the NH, or did dad need to do that because mom is no longer competent?
https://www.elderlawanswers.com/can-i-take-my-mother-out-of-a-nursing-home-over-the-objections-of-her-agent-under-a-poa-16175
What is the care plan for mom if you do this?
Do you really want to start a confrontation with dad over mom's care? He had been caring for her and it was hard for him to make the decision. He was the one providing care and it may appear it was easy to have mom admitted.
He is still caring for mom on a different level and decided he needed professional help. He couldn't do it any longer.
How long ago was this? Do you visit mom often? Talk with her on the phone? Is mom trying to manipulate you? Or guilt you?
The best thing you can do is be supportive of your dad, he needs you. Dad cannot just sign mom into a nursing home. There has to be a doctor's order. Evidently the doc thinks this is best for mom and dad.
As you realize, Parkinson’s Disease is a complex and often difficult to manage within day to day care.
Whether she wants to be cared for in her present situation or not, skilled nursing care, and the therapies needed to maintain her health, may be best provided in a residential setting.
If you and your father can discuss her situation objectively and peacefully, you may find that being part of her team to be easier to achieve.
Sometimes a “good” resolution to a care issue isn’t available, so to achieve the best possible choices from less than perfect ones, allowances need to be made from all loved ones involved.
If you and Dad are talking, can you see if a little team building might be a good thing for all of you?
Hoping you find a positive direction.....
Concentrate for now on giving Mom some respite from her current place when and if Covid-19 gives us an opportunity to resume real life.
Do not become divisive in what is likely already a difficult and heartbreaking decision for your Dad. Do not let your Mom divide you from what should be a family decision.
My bro and I used to tease about complaining being the first imperative for all in his Assisted Living on any given day. Keep conversations that involve only complaints and unhappiness to a minimum and tell your Mom you will call again later when she is feeling a bit better.
Sorry that not everything can be fixed. Some things must be accepted with as much equanimity as can be mustered.
If you sign mom out (and my best guess is she cannot be signed out by you) are you prepared to do the 24/7 CG that is going to be required?
I was the CG for a lovely woman with Parkinson's and we worked mightily to keep her home as long as possible. The kids had made that 'promise' to dad and it tore them up to have to move her to a SNF. But she did end up in one and actually, absolutely LOVED it. She got fussed a LOT, visits and activities which I simply could not do for her.
Give mom time to acclimate. Trying to bring her home is going to result in more work than you can possibly imagine. You have a kind heart, but FT CG requires a lot more than that.
But even if you can do it. You really need to be sure that it is your and your mother's best interest
See if he can afford a Caregiver to come by for 2-4 hrs a day.
Your mom can check herself out if your mom tells them she wants to leave and if she can't sign herself out, she can let them know she us giving you permission to do so.
You will need to be taking her to your home as your Dad doesn't feel able to care for her and will just take her back.
LOL 😂 She is a Parkinson’s patient. They need 24/7 care. 2-4 hours a day is a joke. She needs to stay in nursing home facility.
I find that when people aren't personally involved and complain about how someone else has handled a decision, they don't have all the facts. They aren't there 24/7. So if you are not willing or can't take care of Mom 24/7 then you need to be supportive of Dads decision. And don't encourage Mom wanting to go home. Help her adjust to the situation she is in.
you can go to the Court
or download durable for your needs
Hugs 🤗
It will take time for your Mother to adjust & you to gain trust in her new caregivers. Give it a chance.
PD is progressive & causes many falls among many other problems. I am sorry your Mother has it. The reality is she will need more & more supervision & hands-on care as it progresses.
She will have a team of caregivers each shift & more opportunity to socialise in a care home than in a private home, being left with one caregiver while you work or just yourself.
Help her adjust to her new accommodation, let the caregivers do their job & add joy to her life instead.
Botox and other treatments have been verified as helpful in Parkinson"s. Strongly suggest you and Dad read the medical journals relevant toyourvarious situations S this will educate both of you as to best practices worldwide. U.S. Dr.s quite often are closedminded and Not up to date onnew protocols,treatments,cautions,etc. As they are overworked and often burned out!! Make sure Mom has aVERY explicit,detailed power of attorney document filled. Out and notarized properly as well as a medical directive and will. Familiarize yourself online regarding theselegal documents and common pitfalls or challenges. Also educate yourself on the legal guardianship process in your Mom"s state as you may need tobecome guardian and crisis time is Not the time to figure out the various issues and complications.
If your mom is intellectually competent in a legal context,and she wants out you can get her released. The question is,is your dad legal medical advocate,p.o.a.,or legal guardian? There are free and reduced cost legal services in wach state. Look online or go to library. Often,the services operate out of the courthouse. Contact American Bar Association for help,also. Good Luck!
Caring for someone with Parkinson's 24/7 is very challenging mentally and physically, I do not recommend you taking mom out almost ALL people don't want to be in anyplace other than what they know is home.
Your father makes the decisions for his wife.
If you wanted to over ride those decisions you would have to go to court and seek Guardianship. I doubt any court would grant it.
If you are on the list to visit and take her out you can but you must return her. And knowing that there is a potential that you wouldn't I would not be surprised if your dad made your visits "restricted" so you would not be permitted to take her out.
There may be aspects of your mother's illness that you are unaware of. Example..often with Parkinson's is LBD or Lewy Body Dementia this often presents it self with anger or violence and it is possible that your dad also placed mom for HIS protection as well as hers.
She is getting the care she needs where she is.