Mother in law moved in. What now?

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Mother in law moved in. What now?

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The last time we visited my mother in-law and her husband in FL, we asked what's going to happen when you or your husband dies? She laughed it off saying we would take care of her. I said no that we didn't take care of my parents that they ended up going to a nursing home up the street from our house and both ended up living together and dying there. We still had and have our jobs and couldn't manage taking care of them.

I'll call her Dora not her real name. In early Sept. we received a call that Dora's husband died in his sleep. She had been taking care of him...he had dementia. Dora has her own health problems. COPD the biggest. She's 82 yrs. old. Dora has been living with us now for 3 months. She is not a wealthy women. My wife has left her job with 2 yrs remaining before retirement. She's being the caregiver. To make matters worse Dora was never a good mother. Not abusive or anything like that but an alcoholic in my wife's teen yrs. Always away while our kids were growing up. Really couldn't care less about our lives but only hers and her new husbands.

We've lost all our privacy. We set up a room for Dora but she's in our living room from morning to night. We need to let her know at least on the weekends..I work nights...that she needs to stay in her room after supper so we can have some privacy and intimacy. We don't want her to feel unwanted. How should we go about it? PLUS What should I be charging Dora for the care and home we're giving her?

Thanks

RJ

Care Decisions Family Caregiver Multi-generational Living

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I live in Okla. Dhs has a program that qualified my parents with household income of up to 2200 per month per person to get Medicaid. the program is Advantage. every state has some kind of program. My daughter runs a PT program at a nursing home, we learned about services not advertised. My dads physical health and his income of 1400 per month qualified. With that he had PT 3 times per week, housecleaning caretaker assistant 3x week, meals on wheels (but better)
and except for the paper work we paid nothing, however if she lives in her home, assets can’t be over 2000,
when my dad died, mom of course declined. We moved her in with us,
all her services continued
Medicqid does have a vouchers for assisted living , studio apartment, in Tulsa there are only 2
facilities.
i also agree check with VA about aid and assistance for surviving spouse,
Husband has to have been wartime veteran. She could get up to 1200 per month to aid with assisted. VFW has people they can recommend to fill out form. Do not pay someone, they have volunteers that have been trained to assist.We applied, should get payments starting in April & retroactive back to month we applied. September . She will get a lump sum of over 9000. Do a formal caregiver agreement no matter what you do. it clarifies what you have agreed to do... Does your wife have POA, also medical proxy? I would also suggest getting aDNR, with copd
i doubt she wants to be revived should her heart stop
we sold moms house and with proceeds were able to put mom into assisted living. Once va starts she can live there for 48 months
My mom is 90 with Dementia. Her money will be gone, so we will apply for Medicaid voucher or Medicaid nursing home

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Edward;
There is frankly no way on earth that I would forfeit or accept a reduction in my pension in order to stay home to become a caregiver. It just doesn't add up.

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I do not know what to say except, try over 40 years of FIL living with you.
Yes our privacy is gone, boundies always broken, away coming in and bugging
my husband (his son). Maybe some of you live with your in law over a couple
years. Finally putting them in nursing home. Last time my FIL was in hospital
I asked my husband when will it be our time. He quilt trip me in to letting him
back in our home. Next time FIL ends up in hospital I will make my husband choose.
Me or his Dad, I hate to see almost 50 years of marriage go down the drain.
I tell you right now sit down with your husband and tell him and put your foot
down.

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I hope that you will say what you mean and mean what you say. Good grief 40 years...why?

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Edward 22, my brothers n law didn’t think he had it either until I told him it was mandatory in New York State. Call the paid family leave hotline 844-337-6303. It’s the law. Your wife will get paid 60 percent of her pay for 10 weeks starting in January 2020. It’s not FMLA it is paid family leave which is different but mandatory.

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Edward 22, governor chino signed into law in 2016 the (pflbl) paid family leave benefit law. The new law phases in over several years starting 2018. January 1 2020 employees will receive 10 weeks of 60 percent of their pay. My husband used it for his mother in May. It’s the law in New York State. I meant to say governor Cuomo, sorry autocorrect. We pay into it in our paycheck. It’s different from FMLA.

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Elaine, that is true however there is an exception for public employees & Edwards wife is one. They aren’t covered Unless their employer voluntarily opts in to the benefit OR if they are union & the benefit was negotiated in to the contract.

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Edward, Bmillerhanna below in same boat. I say same thing:
Take you wife out for *the honest chat*. Just because MIL is in your house now, does not mean this is the plan forever. Start discussing what will work for ALL of you.

Try to work with your wife as a team. She will be in the F.O.G. (google it).

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Edward, your wife can take FMLA for her mother. She can take up to 12 weeks a year and it doesn’t have to be all at once. I have FMLA for my mother for when she needs me to take her to doctor appointments or hospital visits. Make sure your wife uses it. In NEW YORK STATE we have FMLA that is paid a percentage eventually being 67 percent of your pay.

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As it stands right now my wife will be taking 12 weeks of FMLA if she plans to stay home after her family sick time runs out. Not all FLMA in NY state is
paid. Her plan isn't. We should see a clearer picture of our situation after the month of January.Thanks

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edward: I believe that you said your wife took FLMA - Family Leave Medical Act? I hope that that is the case because she's only 2 years away from retirement.

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Well, I think that three months off from work is long enough, in that case, unless you can swing it financially for your wife not to be working. It also is an unrealistic situation for your MIL if she thinks that her daughter will be available 24/7 around the house.

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It may be too late but if you asked me before she moved in, I would have discouraged it as loud as possible! I have a loving father that I took into my home 5 years ago when he was 89. Sweet man. Never wants to be a burden but, it’s not possible. You try and try to make it work under the best of conditions but eventually everyone breaks down. You think your doing the best thing for your loved one because “no one takes care of our loved ones like we do”!! But, it’s not true. Eventually as their health deteriorates, more care is needed. Then you have the issue of dignity and respect. And how much is there to talk about and engage them in? Eventually they go from bed to community reclining chair and back to bed. They are always present and even though you love them, you can’t possibly stimulate them all by yourself. They need socialization with people other than you. And, you loose your privacy and it takes a toll on your marriage Eventually you begin to breakdown under the stress of caregiving because, even if you have a home health side a couple of days a week and a nurse, the rest of the time it’s all on you. You stop living for yourself because you are always putting their needs ahead of yours. You don’t believe it’s happening. “it’s my honor to care for my loved one”! But, you will break down, a little physically then mentally and then you will adopt the attitude that “tomorrow will be better”! Well, it won’t. By a fall, Dad hit his head, ended up in the hospital and there was nothing they could do. He was not aware of who we were and it broke our hearts. We’re we trying too hard to keep him home? Maybe it wasn’t as safe as we thought? Always second guessing your decision. After he transferred to hospice, within a few days, he did a complete 360! He came alive. Was noticibly changed mentally but pleasant and unaware of the fact he was in hospice. He had volunteers and social workers and aides and nurses and a priest. He had other people to add dimension to his life. He was HAPPY! And we were happier. The weight of the world was off our shoulder. The best I can offer you is to go to Medicare.gov/nursinghomes. And look for the best ones available in your area. Go visit. Put in an application even if you are not looking to place her right now. If she’s not on Title 19, go to an elderly attorney and educate yourself. You need to get your ducks in a row. Waiting lists here for good facilities are long. When they get to you, you can refuse but think twice before you do. You might be doing your loved ones a great disservice. Good luck and God bless

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Moving your MIL out the house but keeping her on the property is not the solution to the problem. I am surprised so many people are saying to build an addition or put in a granny unit! As long as your MIL is on the property, it’s going to be a problem. She’s 82 with COPD. She already requires care and her needs are only going to increase. You need to move her to AL or a nursing hone.

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I too, am amazed... as long as she is on the property, they will have no life.

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sorry to hear that. My mother lives with us it is hard. We moved her in at the age of 97.I had to give up a job myself. I have a bother and two sisters they don't want to take care of her and wont. If your dad was in service and in at war time maybe you can get help from VA. My mother sold her house and gave us the money for a TV room on our house, door from her bedroom.I started her going into the TV room by telling her my husband wanted to watch sports.I went and sat with her and watched TV for 1 hour to get her use to going and watching her TV.My mom pays us for living with us I didn't ask, she said she was going to do that.I know how you feel.My mom was not the loving mom either.She has been better because she is older.Hope something helps to get her in her space and out of yours.

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I may be repeating what others have said, but as part of the spend-down double-check with an elder law attorney that you can invoice the space she takes up as a rental situation and then, I would think, see what the comps are in your area for a room with kitchen privileges. If the attorney says it's okay, then also see how much in-home care would cost for, say, a couple of hours a day or what you can reasonably say you are supplying. Again, check with an attorney. But if that helps with the spend-down of any assets, then that would speed things up. If she makes too much money to qualify, maybe see if you can use a Miller trust in your state. https://www.elderlawanswers.com/what-is-a-miller-trust-14945

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My guess is it’s too late now that she is there. Try to visualize moving her out....how’s that working out.
Dora was my mom. I said no and never looked back. My mom says I should want to care for her. I chuckle inside like she did when she sent me away at 8 years old to live with people we never met for 8 years.

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Get her an elder cottage in your back yard!

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Our backyard is too small for one. So it might not work for Edward either.

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’No’ should have meant ‘No.’ Since, you’re here, your ‘No’ was taken to be a ‘Yes’ or ‘Your word don’t really matter.’

Since, you feel strongly about it, get her out or build a in-law suite, if space’s available. You can’t restrict an old woman. New rules doesn’t register on old mind. You may end up saving your relationship with her.

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Edward, I feel like I'm very much in the same position you are. Emergency situation came up, moved my MIL into our house. My wife and I didn't have any discussion beforehand, and now its 14 months later. And there's no end in sight. My wife has made her mother her #1 priority and has no intention of moving her anywhere unless ordered by a doctor. (She has stage 4 Parkinsons) Our 19 year marriage is rapidly going down the toilet. If I didn't love her so much, I'd have said 'screw this' months ago. Especially knowing how much easier my life would be elsewhere. I'd get into the schedule I've had to keep to help out, but there's only 4000 characters available here! I truly hope things work out better for you than I can foresee coming for me. I'd actually be surprised if my wife and I are still together at this time next year.

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Take your wife out for dinner.
Time for *the honest chat* :
"Let's get a plan that works for ALL of us". It's not selfish - it's just common sense.

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My mother and dad moved into an attached apartment in my YB's house 22 years ago. It worked ok...until it didn't.

Daddy passed 15 years and mother had a few (2-3) 'good' years where she was fairly independent and lived her own life and did her own things.

A couple of back surgeries, knee replacements and then hip replacement later and she SHOULD be in a NH as she is very much in need of outside help, but she's deeply imbedded in her little place, and although it breaks my heart at the state it's in, there is nothing I can do. She is unable to step up even one step, and brother's 'family gathering place' is 18 long steps UP. She has not been upstairs in 15 years. She feels very shut out.

The time to move her to Assisted Living came and went, she won't/can't move now. YB keeps her pretty much locked up in the house. If he's mad at her or something, he simply won't let her go. She complains about him, but he is a big fat bully and none of us sibs will deal with him.

Even getting a twice a week CG to come do small things for her, change her bed, etc., were kiboshed by brother. I was going up there 2-3 days a week for years and doing this for her, but YB put a stop to that and I am not allowed in his home.

She is very sad and lonely, but YB's attitude and the fact he locks his house up like Ft Knox, means we cannot even get inside to see her.

A few years ago I found a lovely assisted living place and with my sister, we figured we could afford it along with mother's LTC policy. It had separate rooms and a lot of activities and trips for those who cared to go. Mother was on board, but YB shut it down and that's when he went incommunicado with us.

Mother is not strong enough to fight him and he has bullied her into submission. There is, of course, a lifetime of sick & twisted backstory to all this---but I can see how negatively this dynamic of mother living in their home that has affected their whole family.

IMHO, co-living with several generations under one roof---rarely works out OK.

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It’s pathetic how some siblings just want control in parents later years & it shatters the whole family structure.

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Either she lives there or she doesn't...she isn't going to "stay in her room". I don't even know how you would go about asking someone to do that when they live there.

I am assuming your wife was the one that pushed for her mother to live with you. You should have put your foot down and said no to your wife. We didn't do it for my parents, so we aren't doing it for yours. What is done is done, but going forward you and your wife have to be on the same page and a solid front. Do all of the legwork before you have the conversation with your mother in law. Find options for her to choose from...then present it like.."do you want to move to this facility or that facility? It's your life and your decision".

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Many good suggestions here. The letter writer noted that Dora "is not a wealthy woman." That means, to me, that she may not be able to afford Assisted Living or continuum of care facilities. What is her source of income? Social Security only? Does she have any other savings or resources to tap for payment of Assisted Living fees? Medicare and Medicaid do not pay for Assisted Living.

One person noted she may be able to apply for Veteran's Aide and Attendance if her spouse served in the military and qualifies due to his time of service. That process takes quite a while to get approved, but if approved, may provide some additional monthly cash to pay for assisted living.

Another person said Dora should "spend down her assets" to be eligible for Medicaid payment for a nursing home. While a nursing home may be needed at some point, if Dora is not really in need of continuous nursing care that's provided in a nursing home, Medicaid would not pay for that. A nursing home is not a choice, you have to be in medical need of the care that's provided there. Medicaid eligible nursing homes are not always easy to find either, since the demand for those spots is high and the Medicaid payment does not nearly cover the cost. So nursing homes limit the number of Medicaid eligible beds. But spending down may be smart if she is in need of a nursing home at some point.

Contacting any local department of aging (state or county,) to start gathering more information on resources available. Perhaps a consultation with an eldercare attorney to start developing a financial plan. In my experience, based on care situations for 4 elders thus far, the financial resources to pay for care is the biggest hurdle. The wife may have to return to work to pay those bills, since many seniors did not do any saving or planning for their elder years.

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Medicaid does pay for assisted living in some states through a waiver program. In states that they don’t pay for the room & board portion, medicaid does pay for other associated costs at an AL.

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After you give it all the consideration it needs, if/when (hopefully soon if she's not going back to FL) can the funds from the sale of property etc be used to put a granny flat on your property or addition/fix up to your home so she has her own suite? That's if this situation continues. I detect it may not be as much a prob for your spouse. Another thought might be to really fix up your own space (enlarge/renovate etc) so that you get a space that would be similar to your living room in comfort and amenities. Not exactly the same, but maybe something so that if mama plops herself down, you can at least retreat to your own sanctuary. It may be that she is lonely, grieving, longs for the comfort of your company?
Think of creating a very nice hotel suite...mini fridge, microwave, nice TV...

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Sounds similar to my mom. My mom was caregiver to my gram. Mom needed Gram's income to afford living in mom's home. After Gram died, mom took a year off to grieve and vacation with some of her inheritance money. Then, Mom took another year to get her home spruced up to sell. It did in 3 days and she had to move in 1 month. Mom did not plan for her new home so I suggested she move in with us temporarily - was supposed to be 2-3 months and ended up being 6 months. I gave mom a bedroom and a sitting room as her "own" but she proceeded to takeover my lanaii and a shared bathroom. She also kept long hours at night, would eat her snacks everywhere and leave crumbs, and my marriage suffered so so much. Thankfully, she was ready to move out when I put my foot down and said no more.

It took 3 months but we finally got mom into a condo that meets her needs. I currently visit her weekly and I am able to up that to twice a week when it is needed. When mom can no longer live by herself, we plan on having a separate "granny cottage" on our property for her use and sitters if/when needed.
She will not change. You will have to help her find a new living arrangement.

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Edward, I can understand that this all happened in an emergency situation that you tried to plan for but didn’t get co-operation from MIL. Well done for stepping in when there was really no other choice. The emergency has now passed, and this is when you need to think carefully about other choices. You have already shown that she isn’t unwanted, but that’s not the same as accepting a long term outcome that you never wanted yourselves. You and your marriage are as important as her own preferences. Start looking at the options, talk them through with your wife, and then discuss them with MIL. Remember that it’s your house, and MIL doesn’t make choices about your house and your lives.

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If father in law was veteran During war time,you can also apply for aid and attendance, For MIL, it can pay up to $1209 towards assisted living cost plus also allows higher assets than Medicaid... contact local VFW, most have a person trained to help you fill out your forms correctly, get drs diagnosis.. at no cost to you..
we submitted forms in September and they are saying April payments will start, with lump sump paid retroactively, future payments paid monthlyMy father passed 1 1/2 yrs ago, mom wanted to stay in her house and was able to for 6 months, then for her safety we moved her in with us7 months later we sold her house and moved her to AL
i feel for you, my parents only lived 5 blocks from us, and everything seemed difficult. you are states away from her assets!
i hope the info about aid and attendance might be able to help you

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Did you really expect her to stay in a bedroom all day? Do you and your wife stay in your bedroom all day when at home? Invoking she wasn't a good mother just kills me here...why did you even invite her to live with you? Was it guilt? Compassion? Concern? I see a lot of I and not enough us. Throw her out if she's that much of a problem. I see you coming in here to get views on how benevolent you and your wife are are for taking the mean, abusive mother in due to her old age: how very kind of you. If I were you, I would do a lot of introspection and your wife did not have to quit her job. You are not legally bound to care for her.

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I suspect that "invite" is not quite the appropriate word--probably something such as "agree" or "allow" would by more appropriate, or even "resign to".

Your comments appear to be rather harsh...

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Immediately put together a care agreement and a lease. If she really has no money for assisted living, you’ll need to spend her down so she can move to a nursing home. She should pay you the going rate for rent and care. Not because you’re trying to make money from her, but because you want to spend down her assets quickly and legally. She should also be buying food, paying a share of utilities, etc. go see an elder law attorney. It will be money well spent.

As for your life in the meantime, set clear boundaries and rules. It will be tricky to frame it so MIL won’t feel like she’s being ‘sent to her room’, but do what you have to do to protect your marriage.

Also look into an adult day program. There was one in my area that ran from 9 - 2 every weekday. The only cost was lunch and occasional activity fees. You both need time away from her.

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Thanks for the advice.

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After my mom passed away, her mother, aged mid-90s, moved in with my cousin, who was newly married. Together they bought a split-level home with a bedroom downstairs for her and a suite upstairs for my cousin and his wife. But my grandmother was not happy because she was alone all day while my cousins were working and then after dinner they went upstairs for time to themselves. When my cousin's wife got pregnant, my aunt decided it was time for my grandmother to go to a retirement community. And once she got over her initial resistance, she loved it - people around all the time who shared her interests, activities going on. She said she should have made the move years earlier. Living with family is not all it's cracked up to be, even for the older person. People get along better and appreciate each other more when everyone has their own space.

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I work in senior living. “I should have done this years ago” is what 99% of people say - even the ones who are telling their kids they don’t like it to give them guilt : )

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Move MIL out and into a senior living facility nearby, ASAP. Your wife goes back to work (unless she doesn't want to and this is her excuse to retire early?) Martyrdom is its own reward. I strongly recommend against it. Your wife will end up resenting her mother more than ever, and resenting you for being right and trying not to let this happen.

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Thanks for the advice. My wife is on a family leave at the moment.

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Even when mom is (very) difficult to live with, I can understand a daughter's strong desire to take care of mom, even when teen needs weren't met. The question becomes how to do that. I'm hearing that Dora really shouldn't live alone, even though she was the caregiver of her now deceased husband.
Dora needs her own space for everyone's mental health. Please have the needs assessment done and take her to a local doctor for an evaluation of her overall health. From those recommendations find the appropriate living space for her--maybe a senior community with a continuum of care. Does it need to be in NY if Dora's health is declining? It would require less travel if it were. In the last 2 years, prior to moving my mom, I spent a total of several months away from home. I hope Dora has or will give durable power of attorney to your wife, especially if Dora is unable to make decisions in a timely manner.

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A gracious response, Mary.

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I want to know why the daughter-in-law is giving up her job! Isn’t she YOUR mother?! Caregiving is everybody’s work; not just wonen’s!!Make rules for Mom (be sure she has a TV & can entertain herself, has access to a bathroom . ) such as evenings after dinner & perhaps some time to yourselves at breakfast. But mostly step up & don’t put the whole burden on your wife!!

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Dora is the mother in law to the husband....so the wife is the actual daughter.

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