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This past fall my dad was admitted to the hospital for over a week... I was my mom's sole caretaker, she has moderate dementia. My dad and mom refused the hospital's efforts to send him to rehab (he has mild brain damage and dementia, and acute kidney damage from this past incident). I now have medical POA and I have found a nursing facility that will not only take them both for their various needs, but will keep them together in the same room! How do I get them into the car to travel the couple of hours here, as they know there is a place for them but say they aren't leaving?!?! The nursing home will not go get them.

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That's great that the nursing home will let them share a room! My parents are in memory care and share a room and I hope they will be able to continue if they have to move to a nursing home in the future.

My parents did not want to go to the memory care either.. so I used some therapeutic fibbing.. told them I was taking them to lunch.. which was true.. lunch at the memory care. Once we got there it was pretty hard.. so no cake walk but at least I got them there.. with dementia you may be able to get away with some fibbing.
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My folks were a total train wreck but I couldn’t get them in care until mom had a really bad fall. She went from the hospital directly to assisted living. Dad had just slid off the dementia cliff at the same time. I took him to have lunch with mom and moved him in. He thinks he’s in a ski resort most of the time.

Mom is mad as hell but doesn’t have the know how to revoke my poa. And I intentionally did not put a phone in their room or she might try to lawyer up.

No one would evaluate these 2 and determine they could live at home. Not even the sleasiest of lawyers.
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Work with the SNF, they have done this before. Ask if they can arrange for a meal and ice cream when you arrive. Perhaps you can have some belongings sent ahead via UPS so you don't need to deal with suitcases in the heat of the moment too.

When we moved mthr in, I bought her new things and dropped them by, and had already put photos on the walls. She was not aware of how long she'd been in the car, and my husband was taking her 5 hrs by himself... He was thrilled there were family bathrooms at Walmart he could take her into. He drove all day as she claimed to need to go every hour and it was another hour to get her back into the car. (Bring 1 person for each demented one so they don't out number you!)

They arrived at the facility after dark when they planned on noon! The ladies bundled her up and had her in the bath immediately (hoarding situation) and we left. They fed her in her room. For your parents, they could potentially go to their meal with ice cream while you step aside to deal with "some bathroom issues" while you step out the door to the gas station without attracting their notice. Their doc will need to Rx some anti anxiety pills so the SNF can offer them during that first week.

Best Wishes- I know it's heartbreaking. Safety over emotional comfort.
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Are you sure they need skilled nursing care or a Memory unit? I'd just make sure that the facility can meet their needs. Also, are they private pay or Medicaid? It's my understanding that they need a doctor's prescription to enter skilled nursing care. I know that is needed for Medicaid.

Assuming that they are going to the proper place, I'd try to work with the doctor. My LO's doctor told her that she needed to go and get some physical therapy, medication established, etc. So, we called it rehab. She eventually agreed to go to Assisted Living to  get herself in better health, work on balance, meds regulated, help with memory, etc. Of course, once she got settled in, she was okay with staying and liked how they took care of her.
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Yes they need skilled nursing, memory care is a locked unit and they aren't ready to be "locked". Mom is private pay and dad Medicare, both until Medicaid kicks in... they have doctors orders and a good dr at the facility.
It will def take 2 people traveling with them, bc of bathroom stops (me and my husband). That's a good idea to arrange a meal when we arrive, I'll talk to the nursing facility tomorrow.
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No way was my mom (stage 5 Alzheimer's) was going to memory care.
She was very suspicious so I picked something she enjoyed -going to the doctor.
I told her she had a doctor's appointment. She was "out of it" enough that she didn't realize the trip wasn't to the doctor.
Once inside, we had lunch (had it set up beforehand) and I even spent the night.

I had given her 1-1/2 mg. of Ativan with her morning pills (from the doctor, of course).
It worked pretty well.

The staff said not visit for 2 weeks to let her settle in. When I came to visit, she attacked me but she eventually grew to like it there.

Good luck, this is not an easy venture.
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Wow Sue, sorry she attacked you! My parents are aware they are going, they just aren't aware it's their new home. My dad has no way of grasping the concept of "why", and trouble with both short and long term, and risk and consequences. My mom has severe short term memory loss and long term comes and goes.
My sister and I feel horrible for placing them in a nursing facility, but neither of us live close to them, and they would never move. Heck, it's only been the past few weeks that we were able to find out who their doctor is/was and what Bank they use!!! They never ever share any information about themselves, to anyone! It's maddening...it's always been that way, always, but it's gotten even worse since they have started declining.
I am a puddle right now at the thought of placing them ... I know they are scared too, which makes it worse.
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September, you’ve got to go through with this. It’s awful and it’s tough but think of what will happen if they are left to their own devices. Get past their anger and tears and make it happen.

I feel bad that my folks world has turned upside down for them but I’m sooooooo relieved that they are finally safe and well cared for.
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At least your parents have each other. I hired a separate care giving company to help me manage my Mom's care. They helped me get Mom moved into the memory care, I did not even go. I went to see her about a week after she moved in, and kept telling her that the doctor prescribed her to stay at this nice apartment and that all the activities were designed to help her with her short term memory. She would admit to having a short-term memory issue.
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You are doing the right thing that is in THEIR best interests. Forget about your feelings...think of it in terms of doing the thing that provides them appropriate care. We’d like to think we are responsible for their feelings...but we aren’t. We are not in control of that and can’t change it. So you must move past that. Approach it from a more "clinical" aspect so that you can get through it. Difficult?..yes. But not impossible. You will be glad once it’s done. Then you can be a daughter...they have each other and will adjust
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Are you asking how to settle them in once they arrive?
Or are you asking how to physically get them into the car and transport them?
The suggestions you have that address the first are good.
As to the second. If you can drive them but have a problems with a car rent a van that will be easier and have more room. If one or both are in a wheel chair you can ask about a medical transfer. It might be a bit more expensive but they can stay in the wheelchairs and be locked down for safety. This would be easier than transfer from the wheelchair to the car seat then back to the wheelchair. And it is possible that the cost of a medical transfer could be deducted or possibly even paid for by Medicare. (Not sure on that please check)
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My two friends for whom I am their POA were pretty resistant to the idea of needing to move to the memory care apartment I had found for them. When the wife started to need 24 hour care due to her incontinence and wandering, I knew there were no longer any choices. In home care was very expensive, the memory care apartment less so, though still pricey. There was a transitions company that helped with the move of the furniture and things, so the day of the move, another friend took them to a nearby town for breakfast and then to have their nails done. Around 2 pm., they arrived at their new "apartment" that looked just like their bedroom and tv room at home with the same furniture arranged the same way, same photos on the walls, etc. My friend, Jim, saw his favorite recliner facing his same TV and sat down with a sight of relief and has been happy ever since. I was lucky to find a place that provides excellent care to their very end. They never would have to leave. The wife only lasted about 5 months before she could no longer swallow and quickly passed away under hospice care there. I visit Jim once a week at least and pay attention to his condition. The staff clues me in on any clothing issues, like his worn out pajamas, so I can get him new ones. Any new medications on his monthly drug list, the head nurse explains for me as his condition changes. A doctor visits once a month to check blood pressure and iron levels--two points of concern in an otherwise physically healthy 91 year old. I have never had one thing to complain about in terms of their care and was so appreciative for the guidance they gave to me since I had never done this type of thing before. I do pay attention and any questions I raise have great answers. They will accept public financing after 18 months of regular payments and we are way past that now with enough assets for another 3-4 years. My life has gotten easier in this care now that their townhouse is sold and that job is done. And with no children or close family members to interfere with my decisions, I was able to make all the decisions I thought best--so far, so good. Good luck on your efforts. May you be as "lucky" as I have been!
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What about the theraputic fib of it's a 'trial place' or for 'over the winter' or 'rehab for physio' for either 1 or both - once there they should slide into routine easily
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Johnny J, you are a genius. To set up their new living arrangements exactly like the home they had to leave was simply genius. I wish all transfers to Assisted Living whatever level of care that is went as smoothly as your friends. Dear September,
 I can only imagine the heartache you're feeling having to move your parents against their will. I ended up with my dad who told me he was building a barn, when in fact he had 70 pounds of water weight, because he was in active heart failure from CHF and had stage 3 kidney disease because of the untreated heart condition. He fought me going to the hospital to receive care, angry about skilled nursing, angry about rehab and really angry about Assisted Living. I just kept telling him I understand how hard this is, I can't imagine how you must be feeling because of losing all of your Independence. That you feel so spunky and able is because of the care that you receive 24/7, proper medications on time, nutritional meals 3 times a day, as well as not being completely isolated. He has six people that he lives with in a small assisted living home, they are all verbal, like a pack of three year olds but they are getting along and he is doing so very well, he thinks he can live alone because he's doing so great. (I picked him up from living alone and the above conditions were a result of poor self care.) That creates another problem just a heads up for you, great care tends to create improvement in some cases then they know they can live alone and you have that battlefront. Stick to your guns, remind them of all of the great things they have where they're at and just love them through it. Also remember to love yourself and your sister  and know that as hard as it is, it is truly the kindest most loving thing you can do for your parents, making sure they're well taken care of. Good luck on your journey may you have a blessed 2018
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Since it sounds like the doctor is on board with this maybe put as much of the decision/responsibility on them as you can. Maybe even get your parents to buy into the idea of "proving" to the medical professionals that they can be on their own. It may not be totally correct but medical professionals do have some legal responsibility when it comes to whether or not their patients are capable of living on their own. I'm a little surprised your parents were able to put their foot down and get your father sent home if the hospital felt he should be in rehab. We were told that if we didn't have a good plan for caring for my mom when she was released from rehab (because she couldn't be on her own...bit of a contradiction) they would send to to a NH of their choice. So we either had to have an acceptable home plan or a NH, the thing was she was still expected to improve/recover enough to live on her own again and we knew if she was sent to a NH that wouldn't happen. But we were able to use that little threat of someone else making decision about where she goes to get her to accept things we knew she needed but she didn't want to do. Maybe this move is medically necessary for one of them and if the doctor has someone come out to evaluate them at home (which you could also do) and you loose this place where they can be together they might get separated. So it could be presented as possibly being temporary, if they respond well to challenge then let them "prove" they don't need it and or as something more necessary for one particular ailment (assessing Dad's brain damage and getting a handle on his kidneys) but the opportunity for both of them to stay together isn't easy to find and if you don't grab this one now they may get split up. Plus getting split up becomes more expensive, maybe that's the route since it sounds like they are on different insurance plans. It sounds like this place is a distance from their current home, maybe closer to you or your sister? While I'm sure they are resisting leaving their home town if indeed this puts them closer to one of you maybe you can use that as a positive because it enables you as POA to work with them toward whatever living situation works best...If I'm missing the point of the question all together and it's more about the practicality of moving and driving them from point A to B I do think enlisting the help of other family members so that 2 people are in charge of transporting your parents, either together or separately if that seems easier and cab take them on a detour of some sort while others move some of their things from their current home to the new place setting it up as much like it is now as possible it might help the transition.
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I told my husband with ALZ that the house was going to be painted "free" but they needed us out of the house. Once he was in care at the facility and asked about the house I would tell him it was taking longer than expected. After 2 months he never asked again and it became his "home." ALZ is terrible and so very sad. I wish you well.
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I also had that issue. The nursing home for parents went thru a lot switching people around to get them into the same room. dad went in first and than mom a week later. they both had dementia/alztimers and other health issues.
funny part about it was when they brought mom into the nursing home I had dad waiting with me at the front door. I said look dad, moms here. my dad looked at my mom and said loudly that's not my wife, shes to old for me, roll me away from that woman now. I was so shocked and embarrassed. I rolled him back to his room and tried to talk to him but he didn't want to hear anything. so we are in his room and here they come rolling mom into the room. he started screaming. to make a long story short he refused to stay in the same room with mom. now the nursing home had to change all of the rooms back so that my parents would be separated. he refused to go into any room in the nursing home that she was in. this went on for about five or six days. he would scream at me if I tried to get any where near where my mom was. than one day I came and dad was not in his room, went to moms room and she wasn't there went to the nursing station and they pointed to the day room across from them and here was my mom and dad sitting together talking and holding hands. I went up to them and dad said Lizzy, mommy's here isn't that nice...
If you or your sister were local to them it would be different but they need the care and your not there to give it. the nursing home is the best place and safest place for them than at home alone. its painful but you are doing the right thing. don't feel guilty for doing something that is best for them in every way.
as far as traveling to and from the nursing home depending on where you live medicare covers some of the traveling issues, and there is also private companies who come and pick them up drop them off and than come back and take them back to the home when your ready. As far as the price it wasn't high where we live. dad passed away six weeks or so ago and mom passed away four weeks or so ago. I miss them so much but in my heart I know that they are together forever in heaven....
good luck....be strong ...your doing what they need....don't second guess yourself......
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You won't be tricking them when you tell them that they are going out for ice cream, a nice dinner or dessert. Of course, you will know it's at their next place of residence because they are no longer safe in their own home. I am actually quite surprised that the hospital would accept their wishes for your father to go home. A hospital will ask "do they have a qualified person to take care of them at their home?" The answer should be a 'No" and then they are transported via ambulance to the rehab unit of the SNH. That's just standard protocol. It is not called "a hospital's efforts."
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Thank you for your kind answers, suggestions, and personal experiences. We are waiting on the final signature for admission, then we will go get them. We did pack their bags this past weekend, and my husband promptly took it all the a laundry mat and washed it all (he wanted to make sure each item was properly cleaned and there were no surprises).
The thought of them being "safe" is comforting... at the same time it is gut wrenching to pull them from all they've had/known for the last 40 years, and to realize that I am left to go through all that "stuff"... reliving each memory from my childhood to now, the only home I've ever known.
My husband did say, "but they will be safe and we won't have to drive hours in the middle of the night for an emergency." Which he is right. They will be safe, clean, fed, and have the care of a good doctor.
The aftermath is what I dread mostly now... the financial, house, sale of things ... And that they think they are going back in a few years, back to their home... that's heart breaking.
Thank you all for your kind words.
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September,

As I posted earlier I just got my folks in a nice place not quite 3 weeks ago. Our situations are very similar. I too have the finances, car, house, garage stuff etc to deal with.

Don’t try to do it all at once. I’m 600 miles away. I got my folks in care, did some banking, cleaned out the fridge, turned down the heat and turned off the water. We’re good for now. This spring I will deal with the “Stuff”.

I talked with mom tonight. She’s getting a little used to her new world and wasn’t quite so frosty with me. I like to think I’m king of the hardasses but thinking of how shocking this is to them was bothering me. It’s on my mind a lot.

But the relief to know they are warm, eating, getting their meds, being bathed and interacting with people regularly is such a comfort. It far outweighs the worry of their adjustment. Don’t forget this.

There will be some bumps but you and your folks will get through it. I will go to sleep tonight not worrying about Dad wandering off in 10 degree weather, mom falling, no food in the house and a 40 year old furnace dying in the middle of the night. It’s a great feeling.
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((((september)))), yes it is hard for various reasons, as they transition into care, never to lead an independent life again. They may get over it before you do, as you are left to deal with their old life. There is a lot of work ahead and it brings up all kinds of emotions.

I remember sorting through papers of mother's finding old letters and photographs. I kept the photos, but tossed most of the papers. Each of us involved in caregiving has to make those kinds of decisions, and it isn't easy. I guess I am saying you are not alone. We understand.

Safety is the primary concern for your parents - not their wishes, nor their happiness. We have to deal with our feelings as we go through this with them. Sounds like your hub is a good support. Do keep us updated. Many here have gone through what you are facing. (((((((hugs)))))))
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I just hope all of you get treated the same way when you get old. If being "safe" removes independence and dignity, what good is it? And what's the difference between forcing someone to be
"safe" and putting them in jail for growing old?
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Blk, I hope I am fortunate enough to be treated the same way when I am in that condition.
The removal of dignity and independence is already done by disease and infirmity.
"Forcing someone to be safe," as you put it, is not the same as being put in jail for being old. It is providing a living environment as close as possible to what the elders would provide for themselves if they were able.
It is the compassionate thing to do versus leaving loved ones to suffer the indignity of bad living conditions that they no longer have the independence and ability to correct.
I hope you too have someone who loves you that much when you "get old."
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Amen, agingmyself. Mother, as she needed more help chose to leave her apartment and go into an ALF, even though we had supplied a senior nanny for her to stay in her apartment. She then moved a couple more times - her choice. Finally she is in an NH,with a lovely room that contains some of her things and reflects her tastes. She is bed and wheel chair bound and receives excellent care by round the clock trained staff. I hope to have a similar experience.

blk2842 -you sound angry. Mother chose the ALH, NH route herself and had input to where she went. The facilities she has been in are not "jail" like in the least. How would you deal with a demented 100 year old who took cash out of her bank and went to the airport without proper identification to fly east to a big city which at the time was flooded? This was not a safe move on her part. The airport authorities took her to the hospital where she was assessed and put on medication for her dementia and personality disorder. Eventually she went into an ALF suited for people with her problems. Dementia reduces a person's ability to make good choices for themselves.

For some here it has taken a medical crisis, like a fall, to precipitate a move to safer surroundings, where the senior can be better looked after than they can in their home, and there are people to help in the case of a health crisis.

I wish you well in your own caregiving journey.
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I've gone through this with my own mother. She was forced into ALF by a granddaughter, in spite of mom's medical and financial powers of attorney, and it killed her. She was miserable and it took away her will to live. IMO making someone do what they would never do themselves should be a criminal offense. We treat animals better than humans. We don't let animals suffer, but we force it on humans. "Safe" from life is no life at all.
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It would, I think, be very helpful if you could tells us how to avoid having to put our parents "in jail." You know, how to keep two demented people from harming themselves when one is in one room, and the other in another? Without compelling them to stay in the same room, or course. Or how a 100lb woman of 70 can turn and lift her 200lb father in his 90s, while getting up every two hours to turn him? You know, all the stuff we could do, if only someone would tell us how to.
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blk2842: I also would like to hear why you think it's called "jail" for your parents. What is your answer?
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I would like to add that there is nothing wrong with people arrange care for their LOs out of a facility. Both are options. Different things are possible for different families.
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I arranged for care for both parents outside of the facility. They had in home nursing care, meals on wheels, rides where they needed ... they turned all of those options and people away. They are refusing help and harming one another in their choices, though they love one another. The calls from them saying, "we feel abandoned, we don't know how to make the food, there is something wrong with our drier (only to find out it has fecies in it), the light fixtures torn out of the ceiling bc they couldn't figure out how to get the light cover off so now electrical wires are hanging in various rooms, giving one another their Rx pills bc "this might be good for you too", catching the stove on fire, letting the dog go thirsty, over feeding the dog, leaving the dog inside 24/7 so it uses the bathroom in the house, forgetting the dog is outside, giving the dog too much of his own meds or none at all, not knowing to change out of your clothes and wash them bc you you've had them on for week, getting into a shower but not washing but thinking you have, not being able to remember to brush your teeth, giving your CC number out to all who call, asking a neighbor to make 10 copies of your house key and handing them out to random people, not being able to understand "risk and consequence" and then saying "well no one got hurt so it's okay", roaches dead all over the house and waking up to roach poop all over the counters when you just bleached them... Shall I go on, or are you going to invade my first ever post on this forum to make me feel like I am horrible daughter?
Today I moved their things into the nursing facility, pushed their beds together, unpacked their clothes, and sat and cried for them... Tomorrow I travel to meet up with my husband, to take them from the house they built, and love. But you know what? I'm a good daughter bc everyone has said, they need help more help than can be provided in their home, and I am seeing to it that they have 24/7 medical care, good food, medication given at the times it is to be given and it is their own meds not one another's, and they are SAFE!
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Oh and to add... I'm making sure APS doesn't take them and put them away! I AM the one finding a place for them, not the State. So yes, I'm doing a good thing.
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