Obtaining power of attorney; how have you approached asking a loved one?

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Obtaining power of attorney; how have you approached asking a loved one?

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How have others approached asking a loved one who currently is of sound mind about granting Power of Attorney? My step-father is getting ready to have surgery, and I really feel as if there needs to be a document granting POA to me or my husband.

This issue has arisen a couple of times before, and it's a little complicated as my step-father lives with my husband and me but has a biological daughter who lives seven hours away. Because of proximity and day-to-day caregiving duties, we are far more familiar with his routines, doctors, medical issues. However, that old saying "blood runs thicker than water" has certainly reared its head a time or two since my mother's death.

There is a will in place...but no POA has been designated. My step-father also assumes that his telling me in an ER that he wants a DNR will suffice if that issue comes up. I really wish he would formalize everything, but I'm not sure how to broach it without sounding morbid...or making him think I'm trying to get into his finances (even though I am on all accounts but one savings account).

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Elder Law Forms & Documents Power of Attorney (POA)

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I would sit him down and explain that without a POA, you & your husband will not be able to carry out his wishes and make decisions on his behalf. Ultimately it his decision whether or not to make you his POA, he may end up wanting it to be his daughter. However, you could make the argument that it’s in his best interest to assign you POA because he lives with you & his daughter lives several hours away. It’s easiest and best for all involved if he assigns it to you. I was bit gobsmacked when my parents made my irresponsible alcoholic brother POA first with me as back and then I realized that it’s because he lives there with them and I am 6 hours away. If medical decisions have to be made, he’s in a better position to do it because he’s present and I’m not.

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Good advice from Worried, and I wonder if you could also kind of throw the hospital he'll be having the surgery at under the bus, so to speak, and mention how they will most likely be wanting to know who has authority to speak on his behalf if he is incapacitated, who has POA, etc. etc., so he might as well get that taken care of now rather than later when he would presumably rather not be worrying about a lot of paperwork before his procedure.

Might be a good way to get the conversation started.

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The hospital will presumably make your father sign something prior to surgery in case things go wonky during surgery because, unfortunately, sometimes they do. If your father is of sound mind, then he can sign whatever document they put in front of him. The better thing would be to have a living will in place and filed with the hospital detailing your father's wishes. An even better thing would be to have a healthcare directive in place and filed with the hospital, which spells out your father's wishes and names someone as POA should he come out of surgery unable to make his own medical decisions.

I don't think they'll take him into surgery without a directive, either advanced or signed by him the day of surgery. Just explain to him that you're trying to get ahead of the paperwork, and you're "hoping for the best, but need to plan for the worst."

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Need to plan for the “unexpected.” 🙂

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The most important thing is someone has a power of attorney. I would suggest approaching that way explaining the benefits of a power of attorney. Suggesting that he can give it too ever he likes, that are a number of options including having more than one person who have to act jointly. That is what I did with my sons, because I didn't either one to feel slighted or like I didn't trust them. Supplicate your own opinion (unless asked), volunteer to do it if that is what he wants, be sure he understand that decision is entirely his and you will support what ever it is - except not doing a POA.

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You say “Dad, you know we love you dearly and because we do, we do not want the state to manage your affairs. When you were younger a lot of this was done just by word of mouth and doctors could honor that. There are laws now, called HIPPA laws that protect people for people using their medical information or taking advantage of them, but it is so strict that even husbands, wives, sons and daughters lose the right to know medical information or make decisions for their parents or spouses without a written document giving them permission. There are 3 documents you need to sign for us so that in case you become unable to make those decisions, it gives us the ability. One is a HIPPA permission form so the doctors can tell us about your condition and what we need to do to help take care of you. The second is a formal DNR statement, that they can keep on file. Unfortunately my word that that is what you wanted is not legally binding. The third is a power of attorney since you live with us that gives us the legal standing to be able to make decisions for your care, order home health, help you pay your bills, etc. You need to sign them now, just in case you get to a point where you can’t. It’s very important so we can provide you with top notch help at all times. Without those documents if something happened, the state would appoint a person to be in charge of all that happens to you medically, where you will live and who will control your finances.

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Your step-father is LIVING with you and you don't have POA? Are you on his HIPAA forms?

The hospital will have him sign a time-limited form before he goes into surgery, which will give you the power to speak for his wishes about medical treatment. That's NOT POA and if something goes wrong, getting bills paid will be very difficult. Talking to his insurance company will be difficult.

There are two different issues here, one medical and one financial. He needs to get himself to an attorney and have both forms prepared.

I trust that he is paying room and board and that you have a legal agreement about that?

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My mom just got POA for my dad, with the help of a lawyer. She'd told the lawyer he seemed unwilling to talk about it, not to mention sign it. The lawyer suggested that she have one done for herself, with me as her POA, and present it to my dad like that... like everybody is protecting themselves, protecting each other, and protecting the future. That might be something you could try, telling him that you and your husband are getting your durable POAs in order too.

The lawyer also talked to my dad about all this, including having him sign both a health care advanced directive (which includes DNR wishes so no one has to decide for him, he already said) and a financial POA.

Since you mentioned your biological sister-in-law living seven hours away, I'll add that the lawyer my mom hired said it's always best to put whoever is closest as POA first, because sometimes decisions need to be made quickly. My sister lives two and a half hours away, so when my dad signed the POA, my mom is first, I'm her backup, and my sister is my backup, should it come to that.

I don't know if any of that helps, but that's my very recent experience.

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Maybe watch one of those shows where everybody is fighting over taking care of mom/dad. Then tell your SF, "We would really hate for that to happen in our family. Can we please make appointments with a lawyer to get POAs for medical and financial and a DNR... (I would add living will too)." Then, get it done.

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Our hospital requests patients fill out a POA and advanced directive before surgery and asks for the document when you check in! How about calling the hospital general number and ask if they have the forms available. Ours even had a simple will form. Then you can tell Dad that the hospital wants these done before he goes under in case anything happens. He can use the free and poor quality forms from online/hospital that you don't trust or he can go to his atty, but it has to be done NOW. If you call the atty, ask that he make a durable POA so you don't have to have dad declared incompetent.

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I would be surprised if the hospital didn’t give him the forms when he pre-registers for the surgery. It’s Pretty standard These days.

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Janus12,
I agree; "unexpected" is a much better word choice than "worst."

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I am concerned with the belief that closer is better. Like alcoholic brother will be sober @ time of "unexpected?" Ask the most reliable, dependable person to be your POA and have your/their primary doctor aware of your decision with copy of
document, and POA's cell phone #.

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Call his daughter and make sure there is transparency in this discussion or I promise it won't go well. Tell her what happens if no one has authority to legally act in his own interests. Suggest (or gently urge) that SHE call her dad and have the discussion. She should recommend that both she and you are assigned joint durable PoA. She, because of trust/family/loyalty, and you because of your current involvement and proximity. If he is still resistant, ask his daughter to ask him point blank what it would take to convince him of the necessity of having a PoA.

The HIPAA thing is different. Your step dad needs to name you as his medical representative for every doctor he sees. Without being named on the Medical Information Release forms his docs can neither give nor receive your step-dad's medical info (diagnosis, prescription info, etc.)

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My husband was straightforward with his parents: "Mom and dad, my wife and I cannot take on the responsibility of moving closer to you and caregiving for you without having the authority to do so."

Be straight with your step-dad: "Step-dad, I've made an appointment with an attorney for you next week so that you can get your important paperwork in order before the surgery. This is for my peace of mind should something happen that requires someone to make medical decisions for you. Hubby and I have paid for this consultation for you. Please consider it a gift."

If he refuses or makes his biological daughter his POA, then you and your husband know where you stand. If blood being thicker than water has reared its ugly head already, it will only get worse.

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Begin the conversation telling a story about a 'friend' whose parent became to ill to talk with doctors/family and there was no paperwork set up for your friend to make decisions, keep paying the bills, and handle personal affairs. Let him know that this scenario frightens you and then take the conversation further about going to an attorney to get things done right.

Maybe this approach talking about someone else will make it easier to have the discussion. There are plenty of people on this site telling about the disasters that happened when documentation was not in place. Let these caretaker 'friends' provide you with sources for your story.

In advance, talk w/his daughter to share your concerns so she won't say later on that you were trying to exclude her. It is possible for both of you to be listed as sharing the responsibility to make it easier for her to help you work this out

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On a side note to the discussion.... I have an experience to share about my father. When his second wife left him in 2008, he willingly drew up a new will with AD and POA. Flash forward 12 years....he has developed dementia and has revoked the POA on his annuities recently.
He moved close to me in 2015 and is now in AL. They are very patient, caring AL. His complaints are unfounded and sound decision making and reasoning are gone. . I have hired a lawyer ( with his money) and am fighting a legal battle with the insurance company because they did not get a notarized signature to revoke POA on his three contracts.. I will likely have to go the incompetency route ( two doctors signatures are already in place) if they do not allow me access to these funds for his future care. I would NEVER have allowed him to live near me without durable POA. But as you see it is not a fail safe document.

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I'm thinking make an appointment to see an elder care attorney who can regale him with stories of stuff that happened to people who DIDN'T have their paperwork in order. When my hubby wanted to leave the ER but couldn't stand up much less walk, the doctor came in and told him a story of his patient who started to fall, wife caught him but then they BOTH fell, and BOTH of them broke their hips. He consented to stay in the hospital for tests. Maybe there's a parallel and I'll bet the lawyer would have some good stories to relate. Oh, here's another idea. Have you and your husband created your durable powers of attorney for healthcare and finances, with backup POA's (remember, POA has to be willing to accept the job), advance directive/living will, etc.? There's a bunch of stuff involved in "getting your affairs in order" and you have to be mentally competent to do it. Let the attorney explain to him that the state will decide who is in charge of his affairs if he doesn't do it now.

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I just obtained POA when I had to move in with my mother to care for her. Although some people go through an attorney, I did not. I just pulled up the doc online and she signed it in the presence of a notary public. My late mother was of sound mind, but she was aged.

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This won't work in every locale. Often a POA needs two witnesses to be legitimate.

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I moved my parents to assisted living when my Dad became very ill and my Mother fell. They wanted to age in their home but after these two events decided to move to the state I live in. I asked them if they wanted a POA and they said they were each other’s POA. We discussed what a POA does and the
y quickly realized that the physical things needed to be done by me. They are still quite sharp so they make there own financial decisions etc. They have peace of mind knowing that when one of them passes there is someone on board to help the one left behind.

what has happened with my parents situation is that they are now happy to have me do most everything for them and their anxiety has lessened so much especially my Father.

when we first discussed POA I let them know it would not mean their life would be taken over and run by someone else. That was important for my parents to understand.

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POA isn't granted as much as it's activated..according to specific terms spelled out in a will. For example, when one or two medical professionals will attest to someone either being incompetent or otherwise unable to handle their own affairs.
If your FIL is of sound mind, appeal to his sense of reasoning that his hard earned money needs to be protected and he has to plan for that. Be straightforward. There simply has to be a responsible party legally named, and get the documents done. If he's living with you it should take no time at all. I would also say, keep his daughter involved as a courtesy. It would look suspicious if you don't. Everyone should have this man's best interests in mind, or at least have the opportunity to. Don't assume anything and try first to work together.

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If she is in the hospital it’s an automatic go to the courthouse.

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Obtaining power of attorney; how have you approached asking a loved one?

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