Please help me. I need help with my mother!! I am at my wits end!!

I would let the hospital staff help her. When she asks, say one second and ring for a nurse.

I am thinking that they will notice that she doesn't bathe when they change her depends.

You can't help someone that doesn't want it, especially when they are of sound mind. You have to decide what you will and won't do and learn to say no. Learn to tell her to stop talking nasty and hateful or you will leave and the next nasty word you walk away and try again tomorrow.

She can only use you as a doormat because you lay down. Stand up, you are an adult and you do not have to accept being verbally, mentally, physically or emotionally abused by her.

I am so sorry, Elaine! You cannot help someone who refuses to be helped. She's of sound mind. These are her choices.

Your profile states she is "living at home". Is this her home or yours? What do you want to happen, for her to change her behavior for her care, to change her behavior towards you? Do you want to walk away?

Start by contacting the hospital ombudsman or social worker and report she is refusing to care for herself and will not let you help her. Perhaps they have a recommendation for you for your area.

If she is of sound mind, you can't force her to move to assisted living. You must protect yourself, though. You don't have to tolerate abuse, and perhaps consider, with help from the social worker, how to step back yet ensure she has someone to watch over her for her own good.

*hug* and best wishes.

Yes, tell the doctor & the nurse at the hospital exactly what's going on and stop helping her! The jig is up. It HAS to be up if you expect your mother to get the help she so desperately requires and for YOU to get off the hook you're dangling from! Call APS in if need be. It's time for all this to stop, and for your mother to be placed in Assisted Living or Skilled Nursing where hoarding can no longer occur, where she will be bathed regularly also. You say the doctors are claiming she's as 'sharp as a tack', yet she's so consumed with anxiety that she's hoarding and refusing to bathe, etc. In my world, that does NOT constitute 'sharp as a tack' and that's what you need to convey to them!

These doctors and hospitals see our mother's for a mere moment in time. They see the Face our mothers WANT them to see, which is one of 'sanity' and 'composure' and 'competency'. The reality that WE see and know is something entirely different. If you want your mother to get the help she needs, let down that mask of perfection she's maintaining and let the professionals see the TRUTH.

I did it back in 2016 and have been doing so ever since. My mother will no longer call the shots where her health is concerned, because she is NOT fine and I will no longer be paying the price for those LIES. Neither should you!

Good luck Elaine.

mountainmoose, she lives by herself in her own house. She is a hoarder. I know I was told a few years back that if they are competent and of sound mind they can live any way they want. When I say she is sharp as a tack it was because she rattled off to the doctor every kind of medicine that she takes, the quantity, the dosage, the dates of her last hospital visits etc. But when she is home she has to hang on to the wall or chairs to walk. She is a hoarder, she is laying on a bed with springs through it. She barely is able to change her depends. Yes, her mind is there but physically she is declining and she won’t let me help her. If I walk away then what? I don’t understand the laws. She can microwave herself something to eat, she can go to the bathroom herself. She can go up and down 13 stairs to the 2nd floor bedroom. What do I do if I can’t make her go to assisted living?

Yes, allow the hospital staff to help her.
Don't hang around her all day for any abuse.
She is in the hospital, take a full day off.
Today. It is Sunday.

lealonnie, did you see what mountain moose said? I can’t make her go to an assisted living facility. What is a hospital Ombudsman?

Thank you isthisrealyreal.

Needhelpwithmom, I’m so torn right now. I have talked to her family doctor before about getting her into a facility straight from the hospital. But she schmoozes everyone at the hospital and convinced them she doesn’t need any help. They told me the last time they were sorry there was nothing they could do. The thing is is that I wouldn’t even mind going over to help her but she gets nasty and tells me she will do it herself. Then, she doesn’t do it. Like take a bath or wash her hair or soak her feet and then I always feel like some of the nurses are giving ME a dirty look for not helping her or letting her toe get so bad. It’s so damn frustrating, I could puke right now!!

My mother is also mentally ill. I was also told just because someone is mentally ill doesn’t mean they are incompetent. She has been mentally ill her whole life. Doesn’t mean she can’t make decisions on her behalf I was told. Years ago back in the 1970’s my sister n law got up from the table to do the dishes any my mother said no!! No don’t touch the dishes!! I’ll do them, my mother told her. The dirty dishes were still there till she washed them a week later. She had ALWAYS been this way. It’s so frustrating!!

lealonnie, will you come over and stand up to her, lol? In all seriousness, yes I have been conditioned all my life to back down to her. Don’t make waves with her. Yes, I need to be vocal and talk to the doctor and nurses and make them understand. Thank you!!

Another vote for letting the hospital staff and social workers deal with her. Maybe show the social workers pictures of the inside of her house (she'll be apocalyptically angry but sounds like that's her default position with you anyway). The county may pursue guardianship over her at some point, which will be in her best interest and keep you outside her blame zone (maybe). She has chosen the way she wants to live her life. You keep wanting her to have a better life than she wants for herself. Blessings to you for your compassion and grace towards her but you should not subject yourself to her abuse and degradation.

Thank you Geaton777, you certainly have given me something to think about.

Thank you lealonnie for cheering me on. I really do appreciate it!!

During a 2 year battle with an elderly relative who needed to be in AL, but didn't want to go, I learned the law was on her side. She had the legal right to lay in her own filth, totally disabled, if her mind was deemed competent and that was her choice to live that way. Now, she wasn't an invalid but she had/has some health issues, pretty much EVERY ailment one can have in one's mid-80's.

1. Visit your mother at the hospital. Push the call button when she needs help. Do not do hands on care.

2. The minute mom says something nasty, get up and leave. "I'll come back when you're feeling better". No argument. Statement, then leave.

3. Seek out the discharge planning department and or the social work department. Explain your understanding of your mother's mental illness and the condition of her home. Explain that you don't live with her and that you are not permitted to help in meaningful ways. Ask their advice.

4. Try to get clarity on the fact that your mother's anger won't kill you. You can stand up to her, talk back to her or walk out on her. None of these actions will harm you. She has groomed you (look up Fear, Obligation and Guilt) to be controlled by her anger. If you need to seek out therapy to help you in this process, so be it.

5. Your mother has also groomed you to see "dirty looks" from folks like nurses. I'll tell you a secret. They are not giving you a moment's notice. My mother trained me to hear "tone of voice", raised eyebrows, etc., as meaning certain things. Hogwash. No one is thinking anything about you. They are far too busy.

You don't say where she is currently living. If in her own property on her own, then how she chooses to live is up to her, and however much you care, the only way to get her to do anything sensible is to leave her to everything until she ends up in hospital and they have to do an assessment to send her home. - Keep away and let the Drs and nurses she is so nice to make a decision on her needs.
You will always be in the wrong, because you don't have a white coat and "power".

We eventually told my mother things had to change ( due to health issues I have developed) and she had three choices, Assisted living, warden assisted flat, or change how things were currently arranged and happening living with us- so that she had far more care.

Needless to say she threw a right hissy fit, moved to Assisted living with the help of a "friend" (who created havoc in the annex she lived in, has taken goodness knows what away and also took her to change her will) and mother told everyone she came across how awful we were and had thrown her out.

Most the time she is what is deemed capable, but it is short term capability - she can make a decision but not give any reason for it, or understand the implications. So for instance she cashed £5K of government bonds but has no idea why or where the money went - but she is capable of making the decision.
She shut a bank account an opened a new one, without any idea of need to deal with monies going in and out - but she is capable of making the decision. (I could go on but won't)

Now four weeks later she is BEGINNING to settle in, we are slightly less terrible, she even said thank you for a couple of things last week.
From this experience - which is exactly what I would have expected (apart from the interference of the "friend", who has fortunately been in Australia for last three weeks), your mother may well be exceptionally negative about you if she goes into AL, but if you just ignore it and phone, call, email (if she uses it) as normal, once she settles she will come round.
If not the choice to be familyless is hers.

We can only do what we feel is best for everyone concerned, most the time we are right, sometimes we are wrong, same with bringing up children. Do what you feel you have to do, you cannot do any more, and don't allow anyone to guilt trip you on how she is, you are not in anyway responsible for that.

We have to accept that getting old means parts wear out, physically and mentally - I am not sure this is obvious to the current elderly who possibly never saw their own parents reach this state. Friends and family die leaving us with fewer or no connections. We become self centred through having only us to think about. We fear the fact we cannot do what we used to.
None of that means we should manipulate people as seems to be prevalent with current old generation, to try and solve some of our problems. Nor guilt trip them, nor make scenes to get attention. As carers we have to decide when enough is enough and the old are damaging us and even the younger generation. Its time for a home with others in a similar position and if you are blamed then that is just a fact of life and right in their opinion, but most the time it settles down and becomes better when they become settled into a new life.

If she is living in a dirty home, not bathing or properly taking care of herself, she is not of "sound mind". She will however drive you into being crazy unless you put a stop to this. Talk to social worker today and completely out her. Explain that her living conditions are unsafe. Have a home assessment arranged while she is in hospital; not sure if APS would do this but start asking that question.
When the hospital staff tell you she is "sharp as a tack" have them go in and really ask her questions about her living conditions etc and hopefully they will come to understand. If no one listens to you and she is discharged, you have to let her crash and burn and get APS in to do assessment. There is no reason for you to be abused but you have to stop allowing this for her good and for you as well.

Seek counseling. You are wasting far too much precious energy worrying about your mother and her toe when you ought to be worrying about your own mental health and learning to establish healthy boundaries with your mother.

Let the hospital social worker assigned to your mother deal with her discharge. Do not allow yourself to get roped into being her caregiver after discharge. Just be matter of fact about the way she treats you - verbal abuse, rejection of *your* help - and learn to say something like: "My mother is abusive toward me. I need the hospital to work out her discharge plans with her directly. Do not include me on her care team."

Your mother may be sharp as a tack and have mental illness; they are not mutually exclusive. That you are afraid your mother "will never speak to me again" demonstrates the power she has over you. If you don't take back the power, nothing will change. You certainly won't change her! You only can change yourself.

You have options. You matter. One step at a time.

NYDaughterInLaw: "My mother is abusive toward me. I need the hospital to work out her discharge plans with her directly. Do not include me on her care team."

Yes, you really need to say this to the hospital team. And you need to step away from helping her. I know you want to help her, but she won't let you.

You have at least one sibling, correct? Where is he or where are they? Do they know what you are dealing with?

Thank you everyone with your help. Yes she lives alone by herself. I talked to the case manager at the hospital. They just give me the same old song and dance. We are very sorry but we tried 3 times to have a home health aid to come in. She refuses. I’m sorry there is nothing we can do. I said can you bathe her and wash her hair? Nurse says I’m sorry she won’t take her clothes off we can’t make her bathe. I’m sorry. There is nothing we can do. Hoarding, I’m sorry there is nothing we can do. She is allowed to live any way she wants. The house next door to her house sold for 200,000 dollars. Her house is run down but clean on the outside. No debris, no leaves, cut grass, etc. She owns her own home with nobody else and no pets. I’m sorry there is nothing we can do. I’m sorry. So now she is back in her own home.

Xenajada, you are so right! The law is on her side!! I can’t make her do a damn thing and neither can anybody else. It is her right not to bathe. It is her right not to have a home health aide. It is her own damn right to be a hoarder PERIOD. It’s a hard pill to swallow.

I live in NY. I had been in counseling on and off for years. I had a therapist for the last 3 years who I loved. But my insurance company decided I was CURED!!! Anxiety and depression only cover for 3 months now. So now I’m not seeing a counselor now. If I was filthy rich I would pay cas to talk to a psychiatrist!! My son has mental illness, Autism, impulse control issues, ocd, add , etc. My son was in an outpatient group program for 3 years. He’s on Medicare and Medicaid and they the insurance decided he was cured!! So now he isn’t getting counseling anymore. This is the world we live in now. The INSURANCE company dictating who needs help and who doesn’t.

Elaine,

I feel your pain! I went through the toenail stuff with my mom. It drove me crazy! She got mad at me when I told the doctor about her big toe. I know it was a pain to get those compression stockings off and on but nails have to be cut.

It was a fungus. I had to fight her to cut her nails and I was so afraid she would get ingrown toenails.

My mom refused the fluid pills. She had severe edema but said she wouldn’t take it because it would make her pee more. Grrrrr.

Insurance companies can be a pain in the butt! How can they say your son is cured of autism? That doesn’t make sense. How can they say you don’t need therapy? Remember years ago insurance didn’t cover lots of things. It’s still a challenge to deal with.

I have had issues with them covering meds, my blood pressure meds! The pharmacy no longer carried the milligrams that I needed so they had to give me two tablets to make up the right amount and the insurance squawked at paying for two pills instead of one. I had to fight them saying the manufacturer was out of them. It gets crazy dealing with insurance, doesn’t it? I had to pay out of pocket until it was settled and then they reimbursed me for it.

needhelpwithmom, my mother is the same way. Severe swelling in her ankles. She is a very small woman but her legs and ankles are big from the swelling. She was in the hospital since Friday and they gave her 20mg of a water pill. She cuts hers in half at home. But guess what? No more swelling!!! I told her the 20 mg works for you!! She says I cut them in half because they make me pee all the time. The nurses at the hospital said don’t cut them in half. She’ll do what she wants to do when she gets home.

Elaine; Take a step back and a deep breath.

It's not worth fighting your mother if she doesn't want to be helped. Folks like this are their own worst enemy. If the hospital isn't seeing her as too far gone to care for herself, then it's not your job to foist your care upon her.

I know that this is hard. (((((((((hugs)))))))))

Elaine, this is what your mother needs to understand about diuretics (water pills).

They don't work on a sliding scale, where the pee results would go: nothing, a little bit, a bit more, a lot, gush...

The amount in your system needs to reach a critical level, so the pee goes: nothing, nothing, nothing, whoosh - !

(There is an unofficial formula for this: age + BUN = Lasix dose, which shouldn't work but does.)

Anyway. The important thing is that despite the discomfort and inconvenience of needing to pee urgently several times and going A LOT, what your mother is peeing out is the vast amount of excess water currently stored in the tissues throughout her body, and diluting her bloodstream. She NEEDS to get rid of it! - and get her to trust you, that she will feel a heck of a lot better once this is back under control.

If she won't listen to you, and if she won't comply with instructions unless the doctors and nurses are standing over her, then I think it really would be better for both HER and you if you took a break. Do not feel guilty! - this genuinely would be in her best interests, both short and long term. Is that something you could consider?

CM,

Thanks for that explanation. My grandma always took the fluid pills at the correct dosage and it helped greatly for her. People shy away from meds sometimes. I don’t believe in over medicating but feel some meds are necessary to be at our best.

I feel your pain. My stepmom seems so sweet and very fluid when at the doctor's office but once we leave it "oh whoa is me". She doesn't tell him the truth about anything. Besides renal failure she has severe anxiety now and calls me many times per day ( I live out of state) because she "just needs someone to talk to". She does the same thing to her friends all day and night. She has 25mg Xanax but cuts them in half which does nothing to help her anxiety. She recently had a bout with high blood pressure and a seizure so I flew out for 3 weeks. After she got out of the hospital she was back to eating out 3 times and day and either on the phone on her computer telling every body she knows and doesn't know about her seizure. Now that I'm back home and working she's tries to make me feel guilty about not being there. She really wants me to quit my job and move to her little retirement town in another state and live with her. That's not happening. I have FMLA with my job and can and will be there if another medical emergency arises. Now she's making me feel guilty because I'm going to friends wedding in Mexico instead of coming to see her. It's a crazy roller coaster that I have a feeling I'll be on for quite some time.

Dogmom, I have FMLA too and also have accumulated 1,000 hours sick time from my job so I do use FMLA when I need to be with my Mother and still get paid my whole salary at work. I am with my Mother now at the doctors office and I took FMLA for the whole day. It’s getting harder and harder for her to walk because her back hurts. It’s just a matter of time when she will be in a wheelchair. She will be going to assisted living or a nursing home when that happens. She is not moving in with me and she knows it. Don’t feel guilty going to Mexico. Have a great time!!

Thank you to each and everyone of you that replied to me. It really does help and you give me suggestions to really think hard about. I know all of us wish we were not in the predicament that we are in now. Wishing things were different. I’m glad I can come here and vent without judgment but compassion from each and every one of you!! Thank you so much from the bottom of my heart!!!!