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So, my sister in law is caring for my dad but needs to go to work. She wants to hire her son to work part time for dad. Grandson agrees because he wants to do it for cash money on the side to supplement reduced unemployment he's getting since going back to work Post-Covid (he was getting more during Covid than he makes at his bartender job). It's a bit of a scam and I don't like it, although I think grandson would do a good job. I know the tax rules on household help etc, so please don't quote me them. I will tell my sister-in-law that I want to follow the rules for home workers. It will create more unrest between my sibs who will think it's ridiculous to follow these rules for family members.


Any suggestions?

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I'm not against family caregivers being paid but doing it under the table could have unintended consequences for your father. In the event he one day needs a higher level of care than family can provide he may need to apply for medicaid benefits, and they will want an accounting of where this money went 🤨.
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This came up in my family and we axed the idea. Putting aside the financial parts of it, the situation is just full of possibilities that turn into probabilities that the family won’t be pleased with some aspect of care. There are simply too many ways of doing each task, and grandson will catch the criticism for each thing someone doesn’t feel is right, whether it’s deserved or not. Caregiving is already often a thankless job, hiring a young family member is opening him up to way too much scrutiny. Plus there’s no good way to fire family when it doesn’t work out
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marydys Jun 2020
Good points!
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I personally would never get grandchildren involved with caregiving for their grandparents. Look for a trusted agency & let them send someone. Hugs 🤗
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Treetree Jun 2020
I have 2 granddaughters that occasionally help out with 91 yr. old Grandmother. There's great love and respect here - been hanging out together since girls were born. I prefer their help rather than have agency people.
EVERY situation is different.
Good luck and God bless all the caregivers.
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My friend had her DIL get hired by an agency, and her only client was friends hubs. She did her training, and was paid by the agency,, and my friends LTCI paid the agency. So win win for them all. And not illegal. Now that friends hubs has passed, DIL still works part time for the agency,, building up some SS and such.
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marydys, your SIL would still need to have a back-up person to cover for when grandson is too sick to work or needs a vacation. What will happen on the weekends? Hopefully she is not thinking of having him live there...? How old is the grandson? Unless grandson is thinking this is part of a career trajectory, this won't look like much on a resume (I'm an employer, there are certain job experiences I don't give much weight). Grandson won't be making very much money and he may decide it's not for him and will be looking for other work, then SIL will need to do it all over again. Is the bigger picture to keep granddad in his home because he doesn't want to transition into a care community? Or because he can't afford it without liquidating his assets? Understanding the point of/reasons for keeping him in his home will help in the decision-making.
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marydys Jun 2020
I should have mentioned that my dad lives with my sister in law who gets a little for rent from dad but she wants to work outside the home a few days a week. So she needs someone to just babysit a few days and keep dad entertained and safe. Dad agrees to go to a care community but, of course, we want to wait until Covid is done so we're piecing together a plan for the next 6 months.
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I may be the exception here, but I did hire my 19 yr old grandson in Nov. 2018 to help me with my bedridden husband(his grandpa), just to put him on the bedside commode for me in the mornings and since he stayed up later than me, to check on him later in the evening as well. At the time my grandson wasn't sure of his career path yet and was just ready for a change, so he moved in with us and was a great help. I did pay him cash under the table, which for us wasn't a problem. He also found himself a part-time job here where they were willing to work around his hours at my house. I have to admit that after many years of no children living in our house, it was an adjustment for me and certainly for him as well. But my husband loved having him here and it was so sweet to see the 2 of them together. That situation lasted until Sept. 2019 when my grandson said that he was home sick and wanted to move back home, (I think he missed his friends more than his family) so he did just that. I know my grandson will always treasure the time he got to spend with his grandpa, especially that he's now on Hospice, and I certainly appreciated having someone here that I could trust. Do what you feel is best for your family and don't care what others think.
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PeeWee57 Jun 2020
Yes, it CAN work. It did for me. It all depends on the family dynamics.
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I should have explained further. Dad has been living with my brother and sister in law and before now, she was able to work less hours to care for him. Then with Covid she was able to work from home so, no problem really. But now she needs to work more hours and would like to work some of them at her employers versus from home. Dad doesn't require much. He takes showers by himself although WE all think he should have someone to help. He just likes to sit and talk all day about the news or have someone maybe play a simple card game with him (help him play solitare). Make him a simple lunch. Maybe occassionally take him to the doctor. Theoretically my nephew would be good with doing this as he's a nice kid... but his reasoning has to do more with getting cash on the side (no tax reporting) than anything else. And I do totally see what everyone is saying about "not good for his resume", (agree), "hard to fire if unsatisfied" (agree)... it does make life easier for my sister in law. I further worry that grandson will get bored. And I worry that SIL will cover for him not following through (I live far away). And I also think it's not a good way for my nephew to proceed in life's work. He's in his late 20's and needs the cash and I don't think grandpa is the answer for his needs.... But the pandemic has messed up life in general and family needs to stick together.

I talked to my dad about it... he wants to go to assisted living now (FINALLY) and doesn't like living with my bro and SIL but we can't move him in the middle of covid without a lot of worry.

Anyway, I appreciate the feedback. I used the "tax and legal reasons" to voice my concern and they all think I'm dumb not to pay under that table... but I used those reasons to not say all the above concerns. Dealing with family employees could be fine but also I know my family.... they will get "used" to dad helping them pay their bills.
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FloridaDD Jun 2020
As the sister who my mom lives with, you seem extremely unappreciative of the work your SIL does.  You seem to minimize it.  To say "No problem" because she can work at home.  I work at home, and it does not mean no problem.   

I would tell you to come pick up dad today if you do not agree with grandson helping out. 
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When I was still in High School (Late 70's) I was the grandkid/helper. My grandmother had raised me in a small mountain community, when I was 16 she was told her emphysema was too bad and she had to get off the hill because the oxygen was not enough. So we moved to LA to a small 2 bdr apartment and I went to school. Every morning I got her up, made her breakfast, checked her O2 tanks, left her on the couch to watch her soaps all day, came home, made dinner, weekends were for baths etc The doctor told us I could get paid through Medicaid for the time I was helping, so we applied to the IHSS program and I got minimum wage. This all worked fine until my Jr. year in college, her health gradually declined and the pressure of grades in college was more, so I took a year off and worked for a veterinarian around the corner, and any time she needed me she would call, and the vet being a family friend would let me go home early or for lunch, etc. She passed the following Spring. For my family, it worked out well.
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I read your previous posts. There's a lot going on here, isn't there, not the least of which is the strife with your two siblings.

You mention concern with how much money will be available for your father's care, and you wrote that you think he has enough for 7 - 10 years. He is now age 92, correct? Is there longevity in his family history?

Your father doesn't want to move into a facility (one reason he won't move nearer to you). You also mention that your brother and sil are only paid a "pittance" for your father living in their home, because that is all that they pay. As your father gets needier (and with his diagnoses, he surely will, and he could deteriorate rapidly), is he going to continue to expect your brother and sil (and right now, it seems particularly your sil) do all the work? Will he agree to allow outside help in? And, if he doesn't, will your brother and sil overrule him?

As POA, would you be paying your nephew to take care of your father out of your father's money?

You also mention resentment for all that you have to do with no compensation.
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FloridaDD Jun 2020
Yes, she is resentful, but seems to think it is NO PROBLEM for SIL who dad lives with.  OP minimizes the work involved.   It is not OP's place to say minimal work.   OP needs to agree with what SIL wants or pick up dad.
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Every family is different. My mother receives 'help' from two of the granddaughters with whom she lives.

Their 'job' is to clean for her--and I guess I have higher standards, b/c her place is nowhere near where it should/could be for her health and safety. These girls are 20 and 23, certainly capable of cleaning.

Don't know about them getting paid--mother will live at YB;s until she dies, no matter the level of care she'll require, so the 'look back factor' isn't at play.

I have no problem with family helping out, I just wish they did a better job. But, I got fired for trying to do this for her, as I would actually CLEAN and she didn't like that.

Like I said, every family is different. What works for you, might not work for someone else.
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I'm wondering where your brother stands in all of this? Since, after all, it is HIS father too...and you haven't mentioned at all in any of your posts his caregiving responsibilities.

Were I you and 1) dad WANTS to go into a facility and 2) the primary caregiver (your SIL) is looking to head back to work, I would start the process of placing dad, virus or no. First of all, there's no guarantees that this virus will be over in 6 months. Then, if anyone in dad's house is going out into the big bad world, there is always the possibility of infection coming in. Add to the mix that it's not always quick or easy to get placement - my nephew and his wife are trying to place her dad with dementia, and it is taking months - especially if dad is going to apply for Medicaid.

I would start the process. And in the meantime, if DAD is ok with your nephew caring for him (and you have said yourself it's likely going to be a short term thing) then give your blessing. The only potential problem is the Medicaid look-back period, and I would think he's allowed to give money to your brother and SIL to cover the expenses of his living in their house; then THAT money can be used to pay your nephew.
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When my father had dementia, I hired his 25-year-old, big, strapping grandnephew who was between jobs, at minimum wage. It was only for a short time and a few hours daily to help with bathing, dressing, cooking and running errands. He was paid via personal check or cash and accepted that he was an "independent contractor" responsible for any tax liability. (I put this in writing for him.)

I was not trying to "skirt the law," but the terms of employment were uncertain, since neither of us knew how long this arrangement would continue, since the grandnephew was between jobs and I was trying to get my father into an assisted living place. He was also a family member, which is why the 25-year-old was willing to do it for minimum wage.

The short-term arrangement worked out well for all concerned.
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Yes, caregiving is very underpaid. Any money he can earn is well worth his time and caring. Am a caregiver for spouse.
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If a family member is helping out to care for their aging grandparent or parent then I see it as gifted money. In my country gifts from family members are not considered taxable.
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FloridaDD Jun 2020
It is more complicated.  If grandpa ever needs Medicaid, the  government can and will look back at gifts over the previous 5 years (in most states), and they will have to be repaid, or grandpa will be assessed  a penalty period in which he can use Medicaid.  That being said, I think OP could consult an elderly lawyer as to what the family he is residing with could be paid.  But she does not want to.  She thinks it is "no problem" that they are caring for him.  Just playing cards with him, simple meals, taking to doctor.   Seems like full time care to me.
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Take Dad for a month yourself, give your brother & family a break. Then you will see how you’ve underestimated the care Dad really needs. If your father has all faculties & can make decisions on his own, then it’s Dad’s decision. If he doesn’t have all his faculties And you are making them for him as POA, then get your blinders off & accept that Dad can’t be left alone. Plain & simple, ANY person keeping Dad entertained & safe should be paid for their time. While you’re at it, get an elder care lawyer involved to find out if the “small amount” being paid in rent is fair. Probably not.
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An elder lawyer told me I could get paid rent and for her care with guardianship. That costs about. 7500. Have to do it legal like that if you want to use medicaid someday. They look back 5 years.
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FloridaDD Jun 2020
The elder Lawyer my sister and I saw said you could charge (based on fair amounts) either rent or a roommate arrangement (the former would be taxable income, the latter not, the amounts are determined differently), and could pay a family member (agreement must be notarized, w-2).   It seems to me that OP wants her SIL to take care of her dad but does not want to pay.   If I were SIL, I would be telling OP to come pick updad.
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Imho a lot will depend on the age and maturity level of the grandchild and if he is really up for the task.
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If there is a grandchild who wants to help care and wants to be paid in cash, for heaven's sake - be glad you have someone to help and what is wrong with paying cash. It is no one's business and he has a right to earn some extra cash. Be thankful you have someone willing to help.
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My 31 YO son visits mom about every 3 months. He cooks dinner, does repairs and generally makes my job as primary caregiver easier. I send him money to generously cover his gas and tolls ...My son does not need the money, but I want to make sure he knows I appreciate him.
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