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What difference does it make that the first agent is the youngest sibling? Maybe the person who appointed her believes that she will do the best job. And maybe the desire to remove her is coming from sibling rivalry, not the result of her doing a poor job. Removing an appointed agent is a court matter, involving hiring a lawyer to prepare and file a petition to the court requesting that the agent be removed, and stating reasons such as the misappropriation of funds, or other serious problems that the agent is causing. Caution: courts can see right through jealousy among siblings, so unless there are good, solid reasons to remove her, save your time and money, and get involved in helping your sister do what is best for your mother.
cabernathey, I think you are confusing POA and guardian. A POA can be changed by the parent at anytime they see fit as long as they are competent to do so. Only the parent can remove someone, not the other siblings. Guardianship is another matter which involves lawyers, courts and a bit of money. This is needed when there is no POA and someone has to take over guardianship of a parent.
karen67 It is helpful to fill out your profile on your wall on here. Others can get a better view of your situation. Based on your question you and your sibs should and need to, as POA's, agree on things, or nothing gets accomplished. In any case the whole POA thing, is for the person who assigned a POA, or in your case all of you, to make decisions for thier benefit. If anyone is not willing or is abusing that Power than you have good reason for wanting to change that decision. I share POA with my sister and I was focused on Mom's needs and sis was basically on another planet about the reality of the situation. She told me, Mom will be dead in 2 years and you(me) wanted this and I should be thanking her and gave me a hard time. I was worried about Mom sis was worried about herself. All my sister did was give me grief about everything I needed to do. Bottom line is the person who granted you three POA needs your help, and you all need to focus on what's best for the future health and financial matters of that person. It makes matters worse any other way.
What we have here is purely a legal question and not a familial or a social problem. (1) There is no priority given to persons who are listed first or last. (2) It was a poor idea that created a problem rather than solving one by appointing three persons with equal priority. because giving each Attorney in Fact [the correct title of a person so designated] sets up a foreseeable conflict and one should never, ever do such a thing. (3) The grantor of the power has the right to rescind the present POA and to redraft one in order to properly express the grantor's wishes. I suggest that this be done ASAP. Spent a few dollars and have this done properly. Giving a person such authority is a serious step. The person involved and the family should act promptly before one of the persons involved;[potentially] decides to move all assets to a new bank in her sole name or some other gawd awful thing..
Karen, My sisters and I have POA for my Mother. My mother chose whom she wanted and we all basically share the responsibilities. I am the primary on the POA and should I not be able or willing to carry out the responsibilities, then the next sister should take over, If she is not willing or unable then the 3rd sister takes over. Believe me, sometimes sibling rivalries can get in the way of those responsibilities and there are times when I have wanted to give up the responsibilities because of that, however, my Mother chose me as primary and I am not the oldest of the 3 (there are actually 7 children) but I must honor my mother's wishes and we all must do the what is in her best interest regardless of how long or what others think.
hi madge, what if the parent who is easily influenced by her att. and financial guy- and also the financial guy is her friend- both of whom i had to fire as att and financial guys whenmy dad passed because theses guys are not very kosher- and who my brother is real chummy with- what if the 3 of them got mom to change poa and take my name off- (which was done andno one informed me until months later-never saw it- still dealing with it-) if she was coerced into taking my name off- i had been caring for her in nyc- for past 13yrs and knew her med history etc. while he lives in mass. and only came down for a few hours every so often- i guess what i am saying- is the same thing ive been asking for months-and i know i need legal advice- so why am i bothering u? guess i jst needed to let some tears out- and i identified so much with this woman- with her question on poa- well, thats all- thanks for the shoulder- i miss mom- she is still alive-in mass- brother doesnt visit her as often as he said- and she is jst alone in this nh-he doesnt call- me with infor ever- everything still is so very tragi-c his behavior- but- it is what it is- man, i want to do so much- and cant- guess i am just feeling sorry for myself- guess thats ok- now and then- hope all is calm with u- love to u- k
kmhersh... I love your cat, smileing and so photogenic! if you think there is ill intent with those who are legally in charge of your Mom's care and finances. You could try to have new POA wriiten and have your Mom assign new POA(you) your Mom has to sign and she's needs her ID and if she has not been found incompitent by court or Dr. ,as of date signed, this needs to be notorized but notary only needs to know your Mom is your Mom not to decide if she's capable mentally. New POA, should be in effect and written with you as current Agent. Then you need to focus and to present those new POA papers to all of her financial matters and Dr's and make it known you are her agent. It may be hard now, to prove where her funds have been applied by your brother and lawyer friend of your Mom's, they might not want to give you info you need. You can have it worded in the POA papers that anything that has been transfered or actions that they have taken have to be handed over to you (any documents you need,original papers, proof of care, anything you need to move on,etc.) as you are new POA agent. Leave no loopholes in the wording to cover all bases. ~Hypathetically~ speaking...If POA says your Mom wants her Agent "you" to smack your brother for her you are legally and rightfully in charge of her wishes , so smacking him is your duty as her agent and her wish is granted if you do so. The words on those papers in other words are giving you the ability to act on your Mom's wishes, your her brain her mouth, her life is in your hands. The words on those papers are very important!!!! Planeman is correct and ASAP is not fast enough. I agree with the conflict and mistake in having more than one POA. POA and caregiver should be same person. Karen...Examples....Going back to the words... "AND" means needs both in your case all THREE, so if #1 son AND #2 son AND #3 daughter... all are needed to equally agreeing or all 3 signatures. "OR" means just that one or the other signature is acceptable. It could even state (for example) that my #1 son can handle my finances and my #2 son handle my funeral arrangements. It's all in the words. If details are not specifically stated you may not have the Power to do a transaction or handle a certain affair. Changing an address may be difficult if it's not specifically stated in papers. I found this out the hard way. If you want to be in charge you can take charge. If you see abuse in care or misused funds, report your concerns. Do what's best and don't fear anyone who get's in the way of your loved one's best interest or daily neeeds.
Thanks, Madge, but I was assuming that the elderly person either had refused to change the POA, or was not in a physical/mental or emotional state to do so. I understand guardianships, but I was focusing on her issue with getting her mother's agent removed, which is a court action if her mother cannot or will not do it.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
Removing an appointed agent is a court matter, involving hiring a lawyer to prepare and file a petition to the court requesting that the agent be removed, and stating reasons such as the misappropriation of funds, or other serious problems that the agent is causing.
Caution: courts can see right through jealousy among siblings, so unless there are good, solid reasons to remove her, save your time and money, and get involved in helping your sister do what is best for your mother.
(1) There is no priority given to persons who are listed first or last.
(2) It was a poor idea that created a problem rather than solving one by appointing three persons with equal priority. because giving each Attorney in Fact [the correct title of a person so designated] sets up a foreseeable conflict and one should never, ever do such a thing.
(3) The grantor of the power has the right to rescind the present POA and to redraft one in order to properly express the grantor's wishes. I suggest that this be done ASAP. Spent a few dollars and have this done properly. Giving a person such authority is a serious step. The person involved and the family should act promptly before one of the persons involved;[potentially] decides to move all assets to a new bank in her sole name or some other gawd awful thing..
what if the parent who is easily influenced by her att. and financial guy- and also the financial guy is her friend- both of whom i had to fire as att and financial guys whenmy dad passed because theses guys are not very kosher-
and who my brother is real chummy with-
what if the 3 of them got mom to change poa and take my name off- (which was done andno one informed me until months later-never saw it- still dealing with it-)
if she was coerced into taking my name off- i had been caring for her in nyc- for past 13yrs and knew her med history etc. while he lives in mass. and only came down for a few hours every so often-
i guess what i am saying- is the same thing ive been asking for months-and
i know i need legal advice- so why am i bothering u?
guess i jst needed to let some tears out- and i identified so much with this woman-
with her question on poa-
well, thats all- thanks for the shoulder-
i miss mom- she is still alive-in mass- brother doesnt visit her as often as he said- and she is jst alone in this nh-he doesnt call- me with infor ever- everything still is so very tragi-c his behavior- but- it is what it is- man, i want to do so much- and cant-
guess i am just feeling sorry for myself- guess thats ok- now and then-
hope all is calm with u-
love to u-
k
if you think there is ill intent with those who are legally in charge of your Mom's care and finances. You could try to have new POA wriiten and have your Mom assign new POA(you) your Mom has to sign and she's needs her ID and if she has not been found incompitent by court or Dr. ,as of date signed, this needs to be notorized but notary only needs to know your Mom is your Mom not to decide if she's capable mentally. New POA, should be in effect and written with you as current Agent. Then you need to focus and to present those new POA papers to all of her financial matters and Dr's and make it known you are her agent. It may be hard now, to prove where her funds have been applied by your brother and lawyer friend of your Mom's, they might not want to give you info you need. You can have it worded in the POA papers that anything that has been transfered or actions that they have taken have to be handed over to you (any documents you need,original papers, proof of care, anything you need to move on,etc.) as you are new POA agent. Leave no loopholes in the wording to cover all bases. ~Hypathetically~ speaking...If POA says your Mom wants her Agent "you" to smack your brother for her you are legally and rightfully in charge of her wishes , so smacking him is your duty as her agent and her wish is granted if you do so. The words on those papers in other words are giving you the ability to act on your Mom's wishes, your her brain her mouth, her life is in your hands. The words on those papers are very important!!!!
Planeman is correct and ASAP is not fast enough. I agree with the conflict and mistake in having more than one POA. POA and caregiver should be same person. Karen...Examples....Going back to the words... "AND" means needs both in your case all THREE, so if #1 son AND #2 son AND #3 daughter... all are needed to equally agreeing or all 3 signatures. "OR" means just that one or the other signature is acceptable. It could even state (for example) that my #1 son can handle my finances and my #2 son handle my funeral arrangements. It's all in the words. If details are not specifically stated you may not have the Power to do a transaction or handle a certain affair. Changing an address may be difficult if it's not specifically stated in papers. I found this out the hard way. If you want to be in charge you can take charge. If you see abuse in care or misused funds, report your concerns. Do what's best and don't fear anyone who get's in the way of your loved one's best interest or daily neeeds.